Frightened about my future

never-in-doubt

Hi Ann

Thanks for your email - hehe, seems that things are going the way we want so far! Sooo - the letter that BC sent you, it seems quite professional right? Well you're going to love this... Sorry Ann, that letter was a bog-standard "blanket response".

Basically, have a mooch here: #879 you'll see it reads word for word the same as your "threatening legally scary letter" did that you just emailed me..... shame! They really do not have a clue - muppets :mad:

Oh, before I forget - if you think it is ONLY you and the user above that has seen that letter, think again - #1179 - so there is two identical versions... :rotfl:

Sooo - what do you reply with? One of Niddy's wee crackers

Send this and see what they respond with (they won't - they will simply issue their final response, then walk away) :D

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

I write with reference to previous correspondence, and in particular to the above numbered account which, for ease and clarity, I hereby deem unenforceable in line with s.127(3) CCA(1974) and this letter is my final response on the matter.

In my original letter (Formal CCA Request), I requested a copy of the credit agreement to which I genuinely expected to receive an exact copy of that which you hold in your records i.e. an actual photocopy of the agreement which is allegedly signed by myself and your representative.

You then felt it pertinent to send me a copy of some random terms & conditions which really does not satisfy s.78 requirements. Moving to your most recent letter, dated 28 April 2010 - I note you spend quite a lot of time waffling on about s.78 which we both know is nonsense. I am requesting sight of the original document, it is not a lot to ask and we both know that if you wish to attempt to take this matter further, then you will have to provide me a copy of the original; most definitely no court action can be taken unless you do have an original in which case CPR31.16 would be utilised.

It is pointless trying to argue the necessities of law with me; you cannot take any formal action without an original agreement and I have put you to task to show me a copy of the alleged original agreement to prove liability, for the alleged account.

You then, rather amazingly, come out with, I quote;

Regulation 7 does not state that the copy of the agreement shall include a statement of the original terms as well as a statement of the varied terms. Regulation 7 allows us to provide you with a "true copy" which sets out the terms and conditions current at the time of provision of the copy.

Need I remind you that part of s.78 clearly states that you shall send a copy of the most recent terms and conditions along with the exact terms and conditions in place at the time of the alleged agreement. Section 78 also supercedes Regs (7) and should be adhered to in all cases first and foremost.

Whilst I appreciate that under the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 you are able to omit a signature and date box from the copy, however I would like to hold in my records an exact copy of the document that you hold. I do not want a piece of paper that alludes to there being an agreement; I would like a photocopy of the actual agreement.

I do not think it is a lot to ask for you to simply go and fetch the original agreement, photocopy it and pop it in an envelope to me. The only reason that I can presume avoidance of such a simple process is if you never actually had a copy of the original agreement in which case may I remind you that OFT Guidance clearly states that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:

• hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
• providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones

In order to be able to adjudge my position effectively I would require a copy of the actual agreement that apparently exists and I therefore appeal to you to fulfil my request. I am willing to pay any reasonable charge that you feel is necessary, in order to provide a copy of the “actual” credit agreement. In considering my request, I ask that you take a common sense approach and do not hold to the line that you have provided all that is expected of you nor the recent test case in Manchester, namely, and to be known as: Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009).

I make my request in good faith and I feel it is a nonsense approach to hold to the idea that you won’t provide this document because you simply don’t have to. I feel that would take advantage of your position and such an approach from your business not be in the best interests of a healthy business/client relationship. In light of the above, I consider this account to be unenforceable until such time you properly comply with my original s.78 request and send a photocopy of the original purported document, if it exists. If it does not, then you must confirm this to me in line with your licensing guidance, as detailed above.

For clarification, the document you sent, purporting to be a credit agreement, does not contain all of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say, all of the required terms are not present in this document. Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of OFT guidelines. These guidelines (issued July 2003 & updated December 2006) relate to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence will take place; irrespective, unless you do supply a copy of the original agreement I will not correspond with you again and any threats will be averred and unlawful and vexatious with a counter-claim forthcoming.

Yours faithfully

Sign digitally

mouseann

Thanks Niddy,

I am sooo impressed - both with your knowledge and the speed with which you responded.

Will send the letter off tomorrow - presumably 2 more identical ones will be arriving very soon!

And I must stop thinking that these replies are personally directed at me! Quite a relief to know that the reply is bog standard!

With eternally grateful thanks!

mouseann

Hi Zippy,

Thanks for the words of support!

I can honestly say that I reall don't know where I woul have been without the support and help of people on here - especially the absolutely splendid Niddy!!!

*zippy*

Ann i'm on page 12 and I can't believe how much i've learnt. Niddy you are a star :T

I can only imagine what a relief it must be to have someone with so much knowledge helping, I was thinking reading the first few pages no one should have to face retirement with all that worry, so pleased its looking better for you. I'll keep reading and be back x

mouseann

Thanks Zippy,

Can only repeat your comments about Niddy being a star - he certainly is!

I still can't help but think that my situation is my own fault but, as explained earlier, I was relying too heavily on a relationship which went pear-shaped at the wrong time - as did the housing market!

So, I am not totally shirking responsibility for all this!

LexieLou

Hi Ann,

I got to page no 9 and had to flick to last page. Bit like reading a Jackie Collins Novel, you know you should be patient and read all of it before the last page.

I'm just wishing you luck and I hope it all works out OK. The guys here are marvellous and are so helpful. I've started my PPI and Late charges from Capital One, others have been sent SAR and then I'll start those.

Keep smiling, we are all here for each other no matter what time of the day or night, someone will be there in the forum.

LL xx

mouseann

Bless you LexieLou,

And best of luck for your own journey!

You are so right, I am getting so much help and support from the wonderful people on the forum.

Not sure about a Jackie Collins novel, though. I have never read any myself but isn't there a lot of sex in them? Perhaps that will be the next best thing on the thread!!!!

LexieLou

Ah I just read trash for pure escapism, danielle steele is my other favourite. Just pure fantasy really, like who ever meets mr right in times of disaster?

mouseann

LexieLou wrote: »

Just pure fantasy really, like who ever meets mr right in times of disaster?

Indeed! In fact, whoever meets Mr. Right full stop! Or even Mr Half Right!

jinny

.

Not sure about a Jackie Collins novel, though. I have never read any myself but isn't there a lot of sex in them? Perhaps that will be the next best thing on the thread!!!![/QUOTE]

Thats so made me spray me horlicks right over me coffee table:rotfl::rotfl: