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Unenforceability & Template Letters III

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  • maz1964
    maz1964 Posts: 903 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 5 March 2010 at 8:08PM
    Evening Nid

    thanks for the help earlier today, you have truely inspired me i have requested 3 cca's (mbna, halifax, and barclays partner finance) like advised to the dca;s chasing, so will keep you posted (all correctly sent with proof for my records) and i hope you dont mind but i also added the bit of the doorstop visit just so that there really is no confussion on their part, All in Writing hehehehehe

    had my callcredit credit files arrive this week, so on we go soon with other creditors, i feel whilst i may have requested cca's in the past im going to do it your way this time with a fresh pair of eyes and tackle each one as they come along and keep an upto date log on each one and respond appropiately with each reply i get back, im sorry ill be around for quite a while:rotfl::rotfl:

    Totally agree Do Not Call Anyone all in writing this way a paper trail will help you and you have total control.
    Getting your credit files will help you to view everything and start fresh like im doing, i feel so much better today for taking the right action.
    and im really loving this thread:beer:
    have a fun eve all maz
    Sealed Pot Challenge member 1525

    "Knowledge is the Power to get Debt Free":j

    Truecall device, stops all the unneccesary phone calls - my sanity has been restored and the peace in the house is truely priceless!:rotfl:
  • Wispa1
    Wispa1 Posts: 76 Forumite
    You're welcome although i'm still none the wiser to your line of questioning lol - you'd make a great copper! :rotfl: :rotfl:

    Or a politician !!! :D

    Sorry, I shall rephrase the question. What I meant was that at the moment you advise on cca's prior to April 07. As my account was opened October 06 but wouldn't actually come into force until October 07 would the same rules on page 1 etc apply? Sorry if I have confused you again!!

    edit - I think I am having a blonde day aswell as I think I have just answered my own question. :o:o Thanks again
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    maz1964 wrote: »
    Evening Nid

    thanks for the help earlier today, you have truely inspired me i have requested 3 cca's (mbna, halifax, and barclays partner finance) like advised to the dca;s chasing, so will keep you posted (all correctly sent with proof for my records)

    had my callcredit credit files arrive this week, so on we go soon with other creditors, i feel whilst i may have requested cca's in the past im going to do it your way this time with a fresh pair of eyes and tackle each one as they come along and keep an upto date log on each one and respond appropiately with each reply i get back, im sorry ill be around for quite a while:rotfl::rotfl:

    Totally agree Do Not Call Anyone all in writing this way a paper trail will help you and you have total control.
    Getting your credit files will help you to view everything and start fresh like im doing, i feel so much better today for taking the right action.
    and im really loving this thread:beer:
    have a fun eve all maz

    Hiya

    No worries - obviously being you're out best "Resident Customer" (haha) you'll have to remind me each time you post or link to the past reply otherwise i'll be as confused as you are! :D:D

    But you're right to start afresh and deal with one at a time and structure your responses - basically when you've done one, you'll know the process to follow for the subsequent ones.... all easy enough til they reply at which point i'll check over the agreements for you :p:p
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    Wispa1 wrote: »
    Or a politician !!! :D

    Sorry, I shall rephrase the question. What I meant was that at the moment you advise on cca's prior to April 07. As my account was opened October 06 but wouldn't actually come into force until October 07 would the same rules on page 1 etc apply? Sorry if I have confused you again!!

    edit - I think I am having a blonde day aswell as I think I have just answered my own question. :o:o Thanks again

    The agreement was taken out in October 06 - not October 07!

    Yep - you've guessed it :rotfl: :rotfl:

    Send the letter advised in last post!
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • leanne82duke
    leanne82duke Posts: 139 Forumite

    Can you post a link to the letter (I done?)... lol, its been a while and i'll need refreshing! However it is not a normal request unless they want to see what shows under their name. Can you post links please to previous discussion about this? If it was via email, just tell me then re-send me my last email please :o:o

    Not really but I can't remember much about the history - see above ^^^^
    LOL, the DCA for the Welcome Account mentioned above? [/SIZE][/FONT]

    yes the dca is for the welsum account
    hi NID a link to jog your memory.... x i can just see your eyes roll when you see which one it is.... sorry xxxx

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=29073585&postcount=244
  • maz1964
    maz1964 Posts: 903 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    Hiya NId

    best "Resident Customer" (haha) - i like that thank you:cool:



    But you're right to start afresh and deal with one at a time and structure your responses - basically when you've done one, you'll know the process to follow for the subsequent ones.... all easy enough til they reply at which point i'll check over the agreements for you :p:p

    going to help out a family im working with i think they may have statute barred debts but are being chased by dca's going to get them to request their credit files then i can work with them on each one as it will tell me more there if they are definately statute barred??
    they dont have a lot of money so i was going to suggest they should just apply for one of the cra, in your opinion with mainly mobile and phone debts would experian be the better one ? any ideas? cheers maz
    Sealed Pot Challenge member 1525

    "Knowledge is the Power to get Debt Free":j

    Truecall device, stops all the unneccesary phone calls - my sanity has been restored and the peace in the house is truely priceless!:rotfl:
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    edited 5 March 2010 at 9:09PM
    wayne99 wrote: »
    thanks mate

    Original letter over here: Default notice

    Copy below for others to see:



    Dear Sirs,

    Account No: XXXXXXXX

    On XX/XX/XXXX I wrote requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for the above numbered account. In response to this request I was supplied a document, a copy of which is attached, which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

    You are also writing to someone unknown at my address, my name that you're using on your letters to me does not match those shown on my credit file - again, additional proof that you have no regard for legal processes.

    I recently requested a copy of my credit report from both Experian and Equifax and was horrified to notice there are several defaults against my name - all of which are actually unlawful due to the fact that an account may only have one default for the same debt. I currently have several, two are showing on my Equifax report and one shows on my Experian report.

    I disputed these entries and requested that the original creditor arrange for a true copy of the CCA to be sent to me. I received a response dated 16/02/2010, containing a copy of what they purport to be a Consumer Credit Agreement. The document they sent, does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say, all of the required terms are not present in this document. Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:
    127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).
    This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

    In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of OFT guidelines. These guidelines (issued July 2003 & updated December 2006) relate to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states;
    2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
    h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment
    I require you to produce a compliant copy of the credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt. If you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to the relevant governing authorities.

    I hereby bring to your attention that no agreement is given within the terms and conditions of this particular type of credit account for the original creditor to share data pertaining to the conduct of this account with third parties for the purposes of credit referencing. I admit to being surprised these terms do not include such a clause but am factually correct in stating that no such clause exists.

    Going back to the issue of the default(s); I'd like to draw to your urgent attention the fact that since such behaviour was not permissible under the terms of any original contract then it would be unlawful for this to be added after execution and transferred to yourself as a right under the original contract regardless of the manner in which this right was transferred from the original creditor (Very) to yourselves. You have inadvertently inserted a clause into the contract upon assignation permitting you to share data with third party agencies. As such behaviour is unlawful I request that you immediately cease and desist from sharing my data with any person who is not a member of your company or group of companies and withdraw any information you have shared about myself from each and every party to which you have supplied this information. I require written confirmation of this or your reasons for continuing to process my data in such a manner, despite no contractual right existing, within 14 days from the date of receipt of this letter. Failure to comply will result in you being served notice under Sec 10 Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist; failure to comply with such notice will result in my seeking enforcement through the Courts.

    This does of course not alter the fact or present any intimation by myself that such contract exists. I have asked you to prove that a contract exists and is enforceable and you have failed. I can confirm that even if an enforceable contract could be presented to me it is still outside the terms and conditions of the Flexible Account Credit Agreement (copy attached) that data is shared with third party CRA's and as such, any behaviour whether conducted by SDFC Ltd or yourselves is unlawful as a result of such terms not existing in the contract.

    The defaults are also incorrectly registered in their entirety - details below:
    Equifax 1 - The Default Date shows 17/11/2007 - Company Name shows Shop Direct (SDFC Ltd).
    Equifax 2 - The Default Date shows 16/11/2007 - Company Name shows Phoenix Recoveries.
    Experian - The Default Date shows 16/11/2007 - Company Name shows Credit Account Management.
    Since the agreement is unenforceable, the default notice is non existent, you have supplied evidence to support a claim by myself that this agreement does not relate to any account I might have held with the OC and you are identifiably in breach of The Data Protection Act 1998 in your conduct it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages.

    I also expect all defaults relating to this account to be removed within the next 30 days, failure to comply will result in more formal action being considered.

    I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

    Yours faithfully




    Sign digitally
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    Regards to the above letter, the key point is here:
    I hereby bring to your attention that no agreement is given within the terms and conditions of this particular type of credit account for the original creditor to share data pertaining to the conduct of this account with third parties for the purposes of credit referencing. I admit to being surprised these terms do not include such a clause but am factually correct in stating that no such clause exists.

    It is a known fact that Littlewoods accounts did not used to allow provision for data sharing and is omitted from their agreements (daft sods!).....

    If you therefore have a Littlewoods account, check it out for yourself.....
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    maz1964 wrote: »
    going to help out a family im working with i think they may have statute barred debts but are being chased by dca's going to get them to request their credit files then i can work with them on each one as it will tell me more there if they are definately statute barred??
    they dont have a lot of money so i was going to suggest they should just apply for one of the cra, in your opinion with mainly mobile and phone debts would experian be the better one ? any ideas? cheers maz

    You really do not want to help anyone til you deal with your own first - also i'll find it impossible to differentiate and if it gets too much then i'll just stop helping altogether - trust me when I say you're at the beginning of a hard slog and you should not offer help until your own cases are dealt with - I struggle to keep on top of things at times (as you can see - albeit i'm trying to deal with 100's at a time lol)....

    Just some friendly advice - deal with you first (give 100% attention to fighting your own battle) then start to deal with friends...... ;);)
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • razer12121
    razer12121 Posts: 82 Forumite
    out of the blue but erm what would happen to a catalog if you chose to ignor it? i mean if they cannot get a hold of you for 6 years...just want this cleared up thanks!

    BTW NID your a star :)
    ebay 2010 challenge -:j very impressed with myself
    Total - £1428.56
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