Unenforceability & Template Letters III

Spacehopper_3

never-in-doubt wrote: »

You just leave things - basically the account will have to be returned to the lender, but that doesn't concern you in the slightest...

Hi, just need some help, again!! I am repeating myself on this one but I have received a couple more responses but in the form of statements from the OC. Collect Direct back to Egg and now DM Ltd seem to have sent back to Santander. No details as such, no formal response from the OC/DCA, just the statements. Assume I just leave it?

The next question is on the infamous Cap One. They have continually refused to provide info as I have not signed any letters. I have issued final letter, in which they have come back again explaining that they need signature so they can investigate my complaint. Do I just leave it, or need to respond.

Last question. Sent final response to Cabot who have now sent their final response. They have requested again from Barclaycard and waiting. In the letter goes on about same old rubbish about DPA and that they recommend that I contact them to make payments. They also say that I have agreed to them processing data as I signed an agreement. Are these people fools! If they cannot provide the agreement, then they cannot prove that I have signed and therefore have to stop processing all data, or have I misunderstood.

Sorry for the long message.

All the best

never-in-doubt

elsie52 wrote: »

Hi NID

Thanks for replying...we have 10 creditors on our DMP...we started off owing £74k and now after 2 years we are down to £33k......Clydesdale have rejected our DMP plan, after being on it for 2 years, and they accepted it for 2 years, never reduced or stopped interest, and have just recently passed us on to Brusnwick Collections, which I believe are their in house collection agency.

It's Sunday morning....what happened to a lie in or a day of rest for you.???

Hiya

Woah - well done on your repayments.... so do you want to consider CCA's to all your creditors (pre April 2007 only)? Why not try and get the whole £33k unenforceable? Just post some details and i'll advise as appropriate.... if you wanted to consider that?

Regards to Clydesale, that's about right for them! Its up to you what you want to do, just let me know

I never have a lie in! 4hrs sleep is a lie-in to me (I think!)... :rotfl:

never-in-doubt

Spacehopper wrote: »

Hi, just need some help, again!! I am repeating myself on this one but I have received a couple more responses but in the form of statements from the OC. Collect Direct back to Egg and now DM Ltd seem to have sent back to Santander. No details as such, no formal response from the OC/DCA, just the statements. Assume I just leave it?

Yep just leave it - statements are normal.

Spacehopper wrote: »

The next question is on the infamous Cap One. They have continually refused to provide info as I have not signed any letters. I have issued final letter, in which they have come back again explaining that they need signature so they can investigate my complaint. Do I just leave it, or need to respond.

Report to the ICO and let them deal, for the meantime the account remains in default/unenforceable - they can take no action and similarly, you do not make any repayments. Basically you'll be saying that you have requested a s.78 CCA Request and paid the fee. Then you go on to explain that you've been in regular contact with the lender and they have sent statements and varying other letters, including debt collection ones, to the same address in the past so they have broken DPA s.7 (sch.1) because they have previously disclosed sensitive data to someone they are unsure of (identity wise). You then go on to say that they are deliberately stalling regards to the CCA Request which is in itself a breach of CCA1974 and DPA1998. They will then tell Crappy1 to deal with this for you.

Also mention (and attach a copy) that you've sent this letter: Demand of your Signature which clearly explains the law to them, in respect of you offering ID to prove your identity, a signature is NOT required and does NOT prove anyone's ID!

Refer to the following, as legislative text and quote it to the ICO so they know what you're complaining about:

disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of Data Protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

Complain to the ICO here: http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx

Spacehopper wrote: »

Last question. Sent final response to Cabot who have now sent their final response. They have requested again from Barclaycard and waiting. In the letter goes on about same old rubbish about DPA and that they recommend that I contact them to make payments. They also say that I have agreed to them processing data as I signed an agreement. Are these people fools! If they cannot provide the agreement, then they cannot prove that I have signed and therefore have to stop processing all data, or have I misunderstood.

This used to be the argument i'd fight with (and win) but after McGuffick, no. The lender is allowed to process a default and register the "factual" data with the CRA's - so yes, you will get a default. Expect this to stay for 6 years as well.

Spacehopper_3

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Yep just leave it - statements are normal.



Report to the ICO and let them deal, for the meantime the account remains in default/unenforceable - they can take no action and similarly, you do not make any repayments.


Complain to the ICO here:



This used to be the argument i'd fight with (and win) but after McGuffick, no. The lender is allowed to process a default and register the "factual" data with the CRA's - so yes, you will get a default. Expect this to stay for 6 years as well.

Thank you for the speedy response and all the info. Will contact ICO. No problem about Cabot and reporting. Thanks again for update.

broccoli9

Thanks very much NID.....excellent news and I will await to hear something back from Cap1.

The 2nd CCA request I sent off to Capquest for Beneficial CC. Sent orig req on 18th March, no reponse, sent reminder 6th April. Yesterday I received a parcel from them with approx 200 pages of info on the account, statements and notice of assignment of debt letter but no CCA!!!

The covering letter reads as follows.....

Capquest purchased this account on 29th May 2009 from Marbles Credit Card with an outstanding balance of £xxx. Capquest were not made aware of any dispute or issue with your account on assignment and were acting in good faith based on the information provided y Marble Credit CArd.

Capquest received your request for a copy of your agreement on 22nd March and Capquest will forward these documents to you upon receipt.

I can confirm that your account will not be forwarded to any third parties and no further action will be taken against you whilst your request is outstanding. However Capquest are under no obligation to cease interest on your account nor are they obliged to remove your data from their files inclusive of any defaults on your credit file applicable to the above referenced account and at this stage will not be doing so.

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows 12 working days for compliance of the s.77 (1) or s.78 (1) request otherwise the creditor would be deemed to have defaulted under the provisions of the act. The criminal offence for non-compliance under s.77(4) or s.78(6) under the act has recently been repealed. While a creditor which has defaulted under the provisions of the act cannot seek enforcement of the agreement, their right to do so is reinstated once the document which has caused the default is produced.


In order to help us understand your dispute, as you have made payment on this account could you please clarify the following in your response.

• Do you deny ever signing an agreement for a Marbles Credit Card?
• Do you deny ever recieving a Marbles credit Card?
• Do you deny ever using the Marbles Credit Card to pay for products or services?
• Do you deny ever receiving statements for your Marbles Credit Card?
• Do you deny ever making payments to Marbles for your Credit Card?

I can confirm the above referenced account has been placed on hold to await the receipt of the requested document.

The letter refers to Marbles CC but it was a Beneficial CC through HFC bank???

Do I take it that I do not respond with answers to the questions asked and await receipt of the CCA?

Many thanks in advance

Ooooh forgot to mention - shortly after sending CCA reminder we have started receiving calls from Beneficial Claims asking us to give them a call (We havent!) Why would they be ringing when the account has been purchased by Capquest?

elsie52

Hiya

Barclaycard.........taken out 1995....£5815 owing and still charging interest

Barclaycard ..(previously Frizell,) taken out 1998. Balance £7001 and still charging interest

Marbles...(previously Beneficial) taken out 1992 possible earlier.. Balance £5782. restarted charging interest.

Clydesdale....taken out 1985 possibly earlier....Balance £6446..and still charging interest.

Lloyds TSB. taken out 2000..Balance £13038....and still charging interest.

Cahoot......taken out 2002.. Balance £5000, these stopped interest and charges immediately.

The remaining 4 creditors are overdrafts.

What do we do now, send CCA's to them all?......Thanks again

never-in-doubt

broccoli9 wrote: »

The 2nd CCA request I sent off to Capquest for Beneficial CC. Sent orig req on 18th March, no reponse, sent reminder 6th April. Yesterday I received a parcel from them with approx 200 pages of info on the account, statements and notice of assignment of debt letter but no CCA!!!

Hiya

Send the following letter back to CapQuest, just for fun! lol - no other reason but to shut them up!

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

I write with reference to your letter dated xx April 2010, and confirm the content has been noted, although i'd appreciate your diligence in providing a copy of the original alleged agreement, at your earliest convenience being the prescribed timeframe has already expired (as at the date of this letter).

Going back to your letter, you state that "The criminal offence for non-compliance under s.77(4) or s.78(6) under the act has recently been repealed." - I am fully aware of this and am slightly puzzled as to why you felt the need to quote this to me? If you read my reminder letter again you'll see I never mentioned that you were acting illegally in respect of delaying the CCA. I did mention it, regards to harassment.

In response to your 5 questions, whether I admit or deny any claim is actually irrelevant as we both know. I could admit to anything but you know what? Without the original agreement you cannot do anything, in a court of law, to enforce the account. Therefore your questions have been ignored as the irrelevance is abundant and perfectly clear now.

Therefore, I await patiently for the alleged copy agreement to be sent, failure to do so will result in the account being deemed unenforceable in line with s.127 CCA1974.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 21 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

never-in-doubt

elsie52 wrote: »

Hiya

Barclaycard.........taken out 1995....£5815 owing and still charging interest

Barclaycard ..(previously Frizell,) taken out 1998. Balance £7001 and still charging interest

Marbles...(previously Beneficial) taken out 1992 possible earlier.. Balance £5782. restarted charging interest.

Clydesdale....taken out 1985 possibly earlier....Balance £6446..and still charging interest.

Lloyds TSB. taken out 2000..Balance £13038....and still charging interest.

Cahoot......taken out 2002.. Balance £5000, these stopped interest and charges immediately.

The remaining 4 creditors are overdrafts.

What do we do now, send CCA's to them all?......Thanks again

Hiya

Do you want to attempt unenforceability for all the accounts? It will mean getting defaulted by each one, but obviously you'd never have to pay the debt back.... it also means breaking your agreement with your DMP as they do not entertain unenforceability.....

So long as you're certain you want to follow this path i'd suggest we'll cut your debt total by at least half (if not more!).... obviously the o/d are not covered under CCA so you have to arrange repaying them but we can go for F&F offers which will get a reduced balance, or you just ignore them - the worse they can do is obtain a default and you'll have plenty anyway!

Let me know what you want to do, if you decide to proceed then you should send the CCA request from page 1 to each account and await their replies... keep a good filing system as you'll end up with loads of mail.....

Put it this way, you'll be financially better off within a month following this route, ethically - well, that doesn't bother me to be honest! :rotfl:

elsie52

Thanks for that.....we will go for unenforceability on all accounts except the o/d as you suggested. At one time we wouldn't probably have considered this, but when we have paid Lloyds £7800 over the last 2 years, and our account has only reduced by £1800...the rest has gone in interest....we are no longer of the same opinion as before.:mad:

We will send CCA requests to them all, and obviously we do not tell Payplan at this stage. :lipsrseal

Ethically....that no longer bothers us either

I will get a big filing box ready for the fan mail that is sure to come.:rotfl:

broccoli9

Thanks NID - Will send off letter you suggest!:D:D

So....3rd and final Capquest CCA req - this one is for a Marbles CC!

Basically the exact same details as my last Beneficial situation. All dates of me sending req etc are the same. Received the same letter back in response to this debt as the Beneficial one - Exact same wording just different amounts. Received over 200 pages on this one too but no CCA again!

However this debt we have been paying to Robinson Way since March 09. Capquest now say they purchased it in May 2009. We have already rung Robinson Way (Mar 09) who told us that if it was Capquest (without us mentioning them) then we would be receiving a letter from them so say that it is a mistake and to continue paying Rob Way. However in amongst the 200 pages is a letter of assignment from Marbles to Capquest dated May 09 which kindof backs up what they say.

This debt was for £10K+ however every piece of documentation refers to a different balance owed. This varies by hundreds of pounds every time we receive a letter from Capquest.

Rob Way in Jan 2010 said the debt was down to £9200....Yet Capquest are claiming we owe £10,600 on the account. Each say they own the debt and not sure what to do about it.

We have the same 5 questions to answer on this as per the letter stated before.

What to do????