What to watch for when withdrawing cash Discussion

Former_MSE_Dan

This discussion relates to the What to watch for when withdrawing cash article.

Click reply to discuss or ask questions

themiller_2

A couple of months ago Natwest put a nice shiny new cash machine in outside my local branch. As I stood behind a customer who was using the machine, I discovered that I could follow all her keystrokes because the perspex above the keypad was angled just right and was acting like a mirror. I reported this to Natwest who put some plastic film with a matt finish over the perspex. This works to cut out the reflections but subsequently I noticed that it was starting to peel at the edges. BE ALERT.

Weymouth_Man

:wall: Why don't banks & building society's have cctv constantly viewing these hole in the wall installations, surely this would help us from these people trying to steal our hard earned money ?

James

We have one ATM in town in the shopping centre that's adjacent to an esculator. It's very easy to see someone entering their PIN when ascending. Drew this to the attention of the Bank (Yorkshire Bank), reported it to the centre management and the police at least 6 months ago.

Nothings happened.

Doppleganger

Unfortunately the pictures used in the original thread are a little dated and the criminals are getting slicker and more sophisticated all the time. One of the newest device for stealing information is a thin, transparent-plastic overlay on an ATM keypad that captures a user's identification code as it is entered. To the card holder, it might look like some sort of cover to protect the keys. In fact, microchips in the device record every keystroke.

Another transparent device inside the card slot or on the entry door to the cash point (see below) captures card data. While the cardholder completes the transaction, a computer attached to the overlay records all the data necessary to clone the card.

However not all the skimming devices look the same. In some instances, the entire fascia, including the keypad, has been replaced. In others, a much smaller card reader is attached.



The devices are generally only left in place for 30-40 minutes, and in order to funnel customers to the doctored machine, surrounding ATMs are often disabled in some way, for example by having paper stuffed into the card readers.

The doctored machines can be very deceptive, at first glance. The pictures below were taken at Hammersmith District & Piccadilly station on 21 October 2004. The first picture details how the Barclays cash machine normally looks. The second picture shows how the cash machine looks, after the skimming device has been fitted with double sided tape.

BEFORE:


AFTER:


An even more sophisticated method is through the use of wireless technology. Using small cameras and secretly-installed ATM card readers - which looked legitimate - can sometimes installed on the doors leading to the ATM machines. They recorded users' card information while the cameras capture images of users punching in their PIN numbers, which are then transmitted to the crimminals laptop computer.



Here's a LINKY to more details on this kind of scam.


Pennies from heaven technique and "The Lebanese Loop":

This is a distraction crime and often both methods are used together:

Method 1:

While you are using your ATM card at a cash point, the crook will drop a ten pound note (or change) on the floor asking you if this is yours. As you bend over to retrieve it, they will switch your ATM card with somebody else’s, and then drain your bank account after you leave. You should watch for anyone observing you entering your PIN number, anywhere you use your ATM card. Police know this as “shoulder surfing” and it is very common.

Method 2:

"The Lebanese Loop" is a piece of kit that looks to the machine like a card with a mag stripe, but is in fact a dummy card slot that fits inside the real card slot. It allows the real card to be accepted by the machine, but blocks its return. The bystander observes this, and, if he hasn't got your pin the first time, advises you that entering your pin again may clear the problem. Of course, it doesn't. When you leave in disgust, they remove the mechanism, including your trapped card, and go on a spending spree.

After the cardholder gives up trying to get their card back and leaves, the criminal removes the device, along with the card. Withdrawal of cash often happens immediately, before the cardholder has reported the card's loss to their bank.


REMEMBER: Choose your a cash machine carefully!

1 Put your personal safety first

2 Be aware of others around you. If someone close by the cash machine is behaving suspiciously or makes you feel uncomfortable please choose another machine

3 If there is anything unusual about the cash machine or there are signs of tampering, do not use the machine and report it to the bank or premises owner immediately

James

Phishing pair jailed for ID fraud:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/4628213.stm

Using your details to create a card AND PIN!!!!

Preceding advice is welcomed but when the above can happen we should be asking what to look out for in general and what steps we ourselves can we take to reduce the risk of becoming a victim of this type of crime.

We can certainly reduce it - opt for a Chip & Signature Cards.

realaledrinker

James wrote:

Using your details to create a card AND PIN!!!!

He then encoded the details onto the magnetic strips

After his arrest in June 2003


So the actual story had nothing to do with Chip and Pin cards as the fraud took place before these started to be introduced and involved the magnetic strip, not a chip.

Nice try!

James

""So the actual story had nothing to do with Chip and Pin cards as the fraud took place before these started to be introduced and involved the magnetic strip, not a chip.""

You can bet your bottom dollar that cards details used to make cloned cards were from original Chip & PIN cards, just in the same way as a Chipped card can be cloned (due to magstrip retention) using a skimming device and then used at cashpoints with a valid PIN!

I wonder if the crooks phished for the PINs or managed to break the system?

realaledrinker

What is the difference between an 'original chip & pin card' and a 'chip & signature' card.

Same thing aren't they?

James

A Chip & Signature (C&S) card is specifically designed so that the card does not operate with a PIN. (No liability shift for fraud on to the cardholder and IMHO a lot safer to carry from the cardholder perspective).

The C&S card is inserted into the new type chip reader (the magstripe is not swiped) to check the authenticity of the card and that the card has not been blocked (reported lost or stolen). The payment terminal automatically produces a transaction slip for the cardholder to sign in the normal manner.

The original chip & pin card is any card that's been issued with and operates using a PIN. At present the PIN procedure can be over-ridden in shops if the consumer forgets their PIN or if terminal problems occur.

johnanthony_2

There is an email circulating which says that if you are being forced to draw money from an ATM by a crook, enter your PIN backwards. The email says that the machine will dish out the cash but will also alert the police. I find this very hard to believe. Does anyone know if there is any substance to this or is it just anothet hoax? It does of course suggest you pass on the tip to everyone in your address book.
Thanks