DMP - Budget item queried by creditor, CCCS want to shut down plan!?

pepe2008

As your Church are receiving 10% of every Members income as a 'tithe'....could they not offer you a loan to get rid of this small Creditor. It would have to Interest Free of course as to charge would be illegal in the eyes of the Church...yes?

BTW...who introduced the idea of 'tithing'?...and who gets the benefit?

Religion means nothing in business....unless you are renting a Church-Owned Property of course...and you should not expect others to follow your Laws and cry 'unfair' when they dont.

maureenjscott

OrkneyStar wrote: »

The lady is a LDS (=Mormon), I am not sure if they have any more strict rules about tithing, specific to their 'denomination' iyswim. Our Church goes with the Biblical 10%, as you say, but noone forces us to!

We are counselled by Church leaders at the highest level to pay an honest, faithful tithe. No we're not forced to, however, I have a testimony that paying tithing works and that the blessings that come from paying this are the main reason we are not in even more financial difficulty than we are now. I have been able to get a degree and am now on the Nurse bank in our area so once the baby's here I can do shifts as and when i can to bring in more money to reduce our debts further. DH is now in college and hopefully attending uni in September to further his career opportunities so that we can get out of debt quicker, start saving, and ensure a more secure future for our children. I know that these things would not have been possible without the support of a loving Heavenly Father and the Church that He is head of.

Tithing is a covenant made between an individual and God, it is two fold, If we pay an honest full tithe, He will bless us. It does not take money to pay tithing, it takes faith.

thank you
maureen

maureenjscott

pepe2008 wrote: »

As your Church are receiving 10% of every Members income as a 'tithe'....could they not offer you a loan to get rid of this small Creditor. It would have to Interest Free of course as to charge would be illegal in the eyes of the Church...yes?

BTW...who introduced the idea of 'tithing'?...and who gets the benefit?

Religion means nothing in business....unless you are renting a Church-Owned Property of course...and you should not expect others to follow your Laws and cry 'unfair' when they dont.

Tithing was a law instituted by Jesus while on the earth when he set up His Church. I get the benefits of paying it.
I do not expect others to follow 'my laws' and i appreciate that many dont.

What I do see as 'unfair' is that the creditor to whom i owe the least amount of money, has queried an item on my budget that has been there for 18months and as a result the CCCS want to close the DMP - this is what i have an issue with. I would feel the same if it was my Virgin package or an insurance policy or any other item on the budget - why has it taken this long for them to question it?! And why should it have such an impact on my DMP?

pepe2008

Sorry to sound so harsh, but wasn't it the case that if you didn't pay your tithe then the Church threw you off your Farm?

As I said, you ( and your Church ) have to be understanding of the fact that you cannot impose your views and beliefs on others and demand that they accept them. Particularly in Business...there are Rules which need to adhered to. Agreements are made and Terms and Conditions are applied.
If those are incorrect then you may challenge them, but you cannot expect YOUR Religion to come first.

fermi

How many creditors do you have? Could you cope with/manage a self administered DMP?

Or...........

I suspect PayPlan/NDL would have the same take as CCCS, but you never know. Perhaps ask them?

http://www.payplan.com/debt-management-plans.php

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=29_debt_management_plan

maureenjscott

CCCS_Sarah wrote: »

Hello,

Without seeing the OP’s budget I can not comment on the specific situation.

A tithe is a delicate subject when giving money advice as you can imagine. The CCCS allow a small donation to go towards church/charity within their guidelines and budgets.

If an individual was to go down the route of insolvency then the Official Receiver would not allow an individual to pay a tithe as this money could be used to clear debts. If the creditor was to apply for a CCJ then the court would also not allow this expenditure to be on the budget.

When looking at budgets and guideline figures this it also to be done in comparison to the individual budget, and if an amount to a tithe is more than the creditors are getting for the debts then it is unlikely they would be willing to accept this.

An individual could approach their relevant church to see if they can come to any other arrangement to fulfil their beliefs i.e. voluntary work and offering help and assistance to others etc

Other solutions could be, that once the debts are cleared making the difference back up to the church i.e. paying less now and more later.

Sarah

Thanks for your input Sarah, i appreciate your reply.
I also understand your comments re ccj's/insovency etc.
The one thing about this that gets me is the fact that this has been on my budget since the start of the DMP, has never been questioned by anyone (even the CCCS agents), the figure reduced in October with my last budget, and yet it has taken another 5months for this company to object? If they have agreed and accepted payments as budgeted in October - what are their rights to be able to say 'no' 5months later?

Also, some have suggested paying off this creditor as it is a small amount, however, I did not think this was something i could do while on the DMP as its seen as unfair to the other creditors? Can you shed some light on this? thanks.maureen.

immoral_angeluk

maureenjscott wrote: »

Tithing was a law instituted by Jesus while on the earth when he set up His Church. I get the benefits of paying it.
I do not expect others to follow 'my laws' and i appreciate that many dont.

What I do see as 'unfair' is that the creditor to whom i owe the least amount of money, has queried an item on my budget that has been there for 18months and as a result the CCCS want to close the DMP - this is what i have an issue with. I would feel the same if it was my Virgin package or an insurance policy or any other item on the budget - why has it taken this long for them to question it?! And why should it have such an impact on my DMP?

It's impossible to say why they've only now queried it, but creditors have a right to challenge any expenditure which they see as unneccesary, which falls out of BBA(British Bankers Association) trigger figures. As CCCS_Sarah said, if you were to take formal insolvency tithing would not be allowed in your financial statement as it is not seen as a reasonal domestic expense. I know this is no consolation to you as you feel it is but in the eyes of insolvency law it isn't.

maureenjscott

pepe2008 wrote: »

Sorry to sound so harsh, but wasn't it the case that if you didn't pay your tithe then the Church threw you off your Farm? Not sure about that one, couldn't say.

As I said, you ( and your Church ) have to be understanding of the fact that you cannot impose your views and beliefs on others and demand that they accept them. I wasn't aware i was imposing my or my Church's beliefs on anyone. I'm certainly not demanding that others accept them.

Particularly in Business...there are Rules which need to adhered to. Agreements are made and Terms and Conditions are applied.
If those are incorrect then you may challenge them, but you cannot expect YOUR Religion to come first. I do not expect my religious beliefs to come first in the eyes of anyone other than myself.

As i have said, my issue is that all the creditors i owe have had tithing on my budget since day one. I have reduced the amount paid in tithing over the duration of the plan. The last reduction was in October, and no creditor at any point has objected. So why has this one accepted payments from me at the same level they have received for over a year and now, 5months later (or 18 if you want to look at the whole dmp duration) and now saying they dont accept when they did before? This is my question!?

gonzo127

hi again, well i beleive (am not on a DMP myself) that you can do a full and final settlement with any of your creditors if you 'come into some money' although due to the way it would look with the church paying it for you and you upping your donations it could be seen as another loan which would break you DMP agreement hence why i think you need to talk it over with a CCCS advisor

i do think we should try and move away from the moral reasons of paying a tithe since it could get complicated as everyone has a different view on it

immoral_angeluk

If you ca show us your SOA and the breakdown of your debts we may be able to see what other options you have. At the moment without stopping or reducing the tithe, which you are unwilling to do (rightly or wrongly... fairly irrelevant), so CCCS are going to stop your plan so you need to look at what other options you have.