DMP - Budget item queried by creditor, CCCS want to shut down plan!?

pure_dead_dopey

maureenjscott wrote: »

Hi there, i'm wondering if anyone can offer some friendly advice.

I have had a DMP with the CCCS for 15months, and so far has mainly run smoothly. After I finished uni last summer, our income dropped when DH went to college (his bursary being less than mine was).

It took a few months for the benefits to sort themselves out and by November the rearranged payments were in place. By January, however, we got letters from 3 of the 9 creditors saying that we were paying less than expected. I spoke to them and they hadn't had the most up to date budget/figures. I spoke to CCCS at end of Jan and they agreed to resend the info to all our creditors. So far so good.

Except today, CCCS called and said that one of the creditors (a small one whom we only owe about £250 to, and who have never had more than £8 a month, who are now getting £5 from the dmp) are querying an item on the budget. This is under the donations/charity/church box. We are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and as such are commanded by our Heavenly Father that 10% of our income is paid in tithing. This has never been a problem on the DMP and CCCS have never mentioned it as a potential problem.

However, they now say that as a creditor has queried it stating that the amount i pay in tithing is about £10 more than gets paid to the CCCS each month, that i will have to reduce it or they will close the plan and no more DMP! I have two weeks to get back to them.

Not paying tithing to the Church is not an option. The premise of the commandment is that by obeying it we will be blessed for doing so. The months in the past when we have not paid it for any reason, we find ourselves struggling with little money/food/large bills/etc. When we do pay faithfully and fully we quite often have extra.. whether food/money/or other blessings eg baby due in 6weeks needs nothing other than nappies/wipes - all clothes/bedding/etc have been 'donated' from other church members and i know that this is because we faithfully follow His Commandments.

Hoping that someone can give some advice,
thanks for listening
maureen x

Hi Maureen

I just read your post again and realised that you are paying more to the church than to the whole of your DMP? If I have got that wrong, I apologise. My thought that perhaps the creditor objected to the amount rather than the actual tithe? Could you not try to explain to your elders the straightforward financial facts? A loving God would never want you to do without the essentials of life to pay a tithe, and you say the church has helped with stuff for the baby, so surely a "holiday" from your tithe is along the same line? The other argument is that if both your partner and you are doing degrees etc, your earning potential will increase in the future and you'd be able to make it up then?:)

CCCS_Sarah

fermi wrote: »

Hi.

I've sent a PM to the CCCS advisors who post here asking them to take a look at this thread.

Hopefully they can comment on their policy regarding this and DMPs.

Hello,

Without seeing the OP’s budget I can not comment on the specific situation.

A tithe is a delicate subject when giving money advice as you can imagine. The CCCS allow a small donation to go towards church/charity within their guidelines and budgets.

If an individual was to go down the route of insolvency then the Official Receiver would not allow an individual to pay a tithe as this money could be used to clear debts. If the creditor was to apply for a CCJ then the court would also not allow this expenditure to be on the budget.

When looking at budgets and guideline figures this it also to be done in comparison to the individual budget, and if an amount to a tithe is more than the creditors are getting for the debts then it is unlikely they would be willing to accept this.

An individual could approach their relevant church to see if they can come to any other arrangement to fulfil their beliefs i.e. voluntary work and offering help and assistance to others etc

Other solutions could be, that once the debts are cleared making the difference back up to the church i.e. paying less now and more later.

Sarah

miss_missy

maureenjscott wrote: »

Hi there, i'm wondering if anyone can offer some friendly advice.

However, they now say that as a creditor has queried it stating that the amount i pay in tithing is about £10 more than gets paid to the CCCS each month, that i will have to reduce it or they will close the plan and no more DMP!

hi maureen
i do feel sorry for you as to all the stress this is putting on you and i have to say i can help but feel surprised that this was not a issue before.

i understand you have your beliefs and i think everyone should be allowed to believe in whatever they want so i mean no offence in anything i say, but i cant help agree with the creditor, it does seem a little unfair that you pay more to the church than to paying back your debts after all you spent the money.
From my own personal opinion i would want to sort my debts out and pay them off as quickly as so that i can make sure that my children can have a good future where we are able to pay for everything they need set up savings for them so the can go to uni and keep a roof over their heads in the mean time.
I am not on a dmp but am paying back my debt slowly but surely we are getting there but we still have a lot of debts to pay so with than in mind what about the following

orkneystar said
The thing is the OP may feel that they owe much more of a debt to God than any creditor

this maybe true but if i was to start a dmp and was paying my dad back more money than i was giving to the dmp every month would i be allowed to do this? would creditors be happy? would you all agree i should be allowed to do this because i believe i owe my dad so much more?

i do agree with the op who suggest you let us look at your soa but have to say that i was under the impression that any church would help people when they needed it and you need the help now so surely you could pay alittle less in your time of need and maybe in the future when debt free you could pay more so that you feel better about it, the creditor is not asking that you give nothing just that payments are a little more fair look at it from their point of view at present payment of £5 they will be waiting 4 years for you to pay them back

take care and i hope i have not upset you or any other post upsets you as we are all here to help

DarkConvict

I'm an atheist so hopefully can take a objective view to this, i have to agree that i do not see this as an essential outgoing as religion is a belief and is free, donations are optional. Many religions do have some take on donations, but as times change these are seen as moral guidance in the modern world.

In your circumstances, this is not something you can afford to do and should stop making the donation to the church. Obviously not to offend as others have stated speak to the priest and explain your circumstances, they will understand your circumstances and the hardship you are in. This would be a good time to offer your free-time if you wish to contribute.

OrkneyStar

I have a lot of comments on peoples points, but as they won't help the OP I am not posting them here.
All the best OP.

gailey_2

maureenjscott wrote: »

Hi there, i'm wondering if anyone can offer some friendly advice.

I have had a DMP with the CCCS for 15months, and so far has mainly run smoothly. After I finished uni last summer, our income dropped when DH went to college (his bursary being less than mine was).

It took a few months for the benefits to sort themselves out and by November the rearranged payments were in place. By January, however, we got letters from 3 of the 9 creditors saying that we were paying less than expected. I spoke to them and they hadn't had the most up to date budget/figures. I spoke to CCCS at end of Jan and they agreed to resend the info to all our creditors. So far so good.

Except today, CCCS called and said that one of the creditors (a small one whom we only owe about £250 to, and who have never had more than £8 a month, arewho now getting £5 from the dmp) are querying an item on the budget. This is under the donations/charity/church box. We are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and as such are commanded by our Heavenly Father that 10% of our income is paid in tithing. This has never been a problem on the DMP and CCCS have never mentioned it as a potential problem.

However, they now say that as a creditor has queried it stating that the amount i pay in tithing is about £10 more than gets paid to the CCCS each month, that i will have to reduce it or they will close the plan and no more DMP! I have two weeks to get back to them.

Not paying tithing to the Church is not an option. The premise of the commandment is that by obeying it we will be blessed for doing so. The months in the past when we have not paid it for any reason, we find ourselves struggling with little money/food/large bills/etc. When we do pay faithfully and fully we quite often have extra.. whether food/money/or other blessings eg baby due in 6weeks needs nothing other than nappies/wipes - all clothes/bedding/etc have been 'donated' from other church members and i know that this is because we faithfully follow His Commandments.

Hoping that someone can give some advice,
thanks for listening
maureen x

Maybe im being oversimplistic.
never been on dmp or strictly religious
more details like soa and list of creditors be useful.

but one point maureen did mention is all creditors good.
apart from one with small debt quuering it which threatens to ruin dmp.
could you not find £250 somehow to paythem off as they the only creditor causing trouble over it?
then you can pay dmp to othercreditors and your church.

thewad

Be nice if the person who posted this answered some of the questions.
Or is this just a wind up post?

John

miss_missy

thewad wrote: »

Be nice if the person who posted this answered some of the questions.
Or is this just a wind up post?

John

i have to say this has crossed my mind
if it is a wind up it certainly did throw up an interesting debate

beanielou

Why would it be a wind up?

miss_missy

CCCS_Sarah wrote: »

Hello,

Without seeing the OP’s budget I can not comment on the specific situation.

A tithe is a delicate subject when giving money advice as you can imagine. The CCCS allow a small donation to go towards church/charity within their guidelines and budgets.

If an individual was to go down the route of insolvency then the Official Receiver would not allow an individual to pay a tithe as this money could be used to clear debts. If the creditor was to apply for a CCJ then the court would also not allow this expenditure to be on the budget.

When looking at budgets and guideline figures this it also to be done in comparison to the individual budget, and if an amount to a tithe is more than the creditors are getting for the debts then it is unlikely they would be willing to accept this.

An individual could approach their relevant church to see if they can come to any other arrangement to fulfil their beliefs i.e. voluntary work and offering help and assistance to others etc

Other solutions could be, that once the debts are cleared making the difference back up to the church i.e. paying less now and more later.

Sarah

i hope its not a wind up and maybe im one of only 2 people who have thought this but i found it hard to believe in the beginning that creditors did not mind someone paying more to their church than to themselves, creditors arent usually so nice

then with what the cccs counsellor said above it made me more uncertain that creditors would be so caring about someones beliefs as even she suggests it unlikely that creditors would accept it, if they have then i think maureen has been very lucky to end up with such understanding creditors it would be a nice world if creditors did care

thats just my view and people may come on here and call me for saying it but until we hear back from maureen we are all left with only our own views on everything that has been posted

i would happily support her and try and help out if i can and have no ill feeling towards her even if i think she should pay more to her creditors these are just my opinions