PLEASE HELP... with my aggressive puppy!

Lemony

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

You have been given some very good advice in this thread, most of which you choose to ignore. That's your decision. However, you have to realise that asking a question such as this on an internet forum is bound to lead to several differences of opinion on how to tackle the problem. Without prior knowledge of dog behaviour/training you won't know whose advice to accept and which to ignore.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to find yourself a local trainer experienced in dealing with puppies from working dog breeds. Ask your vet or check the APDT website for a trainer in your area.

I won't even start to give you my opinion of the RSPCA, that's a whole different thread

Good luck with him

Thank you for your input. I haven't chosen to ignore anyone's advice. I just don't think it's necessary to have a debate about which theory or trainer is the best. I was looking for practical advice about how to cope with biting and nipping. Some of the advice I have been given is very good, but some of it has been slightly off topic. As I said before, I do have experience of behavioural problems/training in older dogs but not puppies. I have tried (and will continue to try) lots of different things until I find something that works for my dog. We are going to a puppy party tonight and I will ask staff there for advice. They will be able to see his biting for themselves and can tell me if it's normal or excessive.

I am also aware that a lot of people don't think too highly of the RSPCA, but I think on the whole their hearts are in the right place.

foreign_correspondent

Lemony wrote: »

Thank you for your input. I haven't chosen to ignore anyone's advice. I just don't think it's necessary to have a debate about which theory or trainer is the best. I was looking for practical advice about how to cope with biting and nipping.

Behavioural theory is intrinsic to how people answer the question - some old school dog trainers would have advised hitting the dog, a Cesar Milan afficionado (for example) would talk about dominance, alpha rolling and control, whilst someone who believes in non-aversive methods may talk about distractions, diverting the behaviour onto another activity, and rewarding alternative behaviours.

I read something a while ago about different sorts of training, which recognised that both aversive and non-aversive/reward based methods may work on encouraging a dog to cease a behaviour, but the aversive methods were likely to damage the relationship between owner and dog, or lead to a scared dog, which you have recognised yourself.

I think your pup sounds perfectly normal to be honest, especially for a terrier collie x - both are lively, energetic, playful breeds. My mums collie x lurcher nipped in play a lot at first - she was about ten months old, and big! When she realised that biting on toys was fun, and rewarded with more play, but that biting arms etc signalled the (temporary) end of play, she caught on quite quickly! I also had a collie x years ago who did this a lot as a pup - I can't remember to be honest why she stopped doing it, but I know that she did!

Lemony

Fire_Fox wrote: »

So you don't trust your dogs veterinarian, your family doctor, Boots pharmacists, your kids teachers, the solicitor that helped you buy your house? Gillian McKeith has nothing to do with a state registered dietician, celebrity dog trainers have nothing to do with a behavioural scientist.

I do trust my dogs vet. I didn't say that I don't trust pet/animal behaviourists either. I said a list of qualifications doesn't necessarily make a person good at what they do. Some pet behaviourists gain qualifications online without any actual hands on experience (I'm sure we all know someone who has had a dodgy builder or a Doctor they didn't like). I'm sure the person you linked to is very good, I don't claim to know anything about them! I just don't think great long articles about whether dogs are pack animals or not are going to help me discourage my pet from biting or nipping. I'm looking for training techniques that have worked for other people in a similar situation.

I am grateful to everyone who has bothered to post on this thread. Thank you.

Lemony

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Behavioural theory is intrinsic to how people answer the question - some old school dog trainers would have advised hitting the dog, a Cesar Milan afficionado (for example) would talk about dominance, alpha rolling and control, whilst someone who believes in non-aversive methods may talk about distractions, diverting the behaviour onto another activity, and rewarding alternative behaviours.

Point taken. For the record - I do not want to punish or frighten my puppy in any way. I want to use distractions and reward him for good behaviour.

Thank you for telling me about your own experience with your dogs. It has reassured me.

candygirl

The Gwen Bailey book is fab, as are all of John Fishers books.TBH your pup sounds perfectly normal, and it is up to you now to teach him how to behave, and imo it is best to do this by being firm but fair, and leave him in no doubt about who is the boss by feeding him after you etc.:D
I had an extremely dominant staffy biatch , but she is like putty in my hands now cos she has been trained properly:D:D

elfen

I think that if something is working for you (as long as it is light taps, not too hard that would hurt) then go on with it. Mum's way of dealing with unwanted behaviour was a light tap to the nose or to the bum, and none of our dogs growled, or tried to nip her. They saw her as head of the pack, and treated her as such.

She now has a Patterdale terrier, and she is the most hyperactive thing I have EVER seen! She gets sent to her when too hyperactive, so she knows when the end of playtime is, and she's pretty good at going there without any taps, which is what was started with, and they were phased out so there's no punishment needed. I know people say that this shouldn't be done, but IMHO, if it's working, use it and then phase it out so it's just the tone of voice that is the punishment.

Zooxanthelle

I would be inclined to think that cheese isn't the best thing to give as a regular treat for your puppy. Think more natural things like a little bit of tasty chicken. Too many additives in cheese.

On the main subject in question, the mouthing should settle down once your pup gets decent exercise. My 6month old puppy has to have up to 2 hours serious burn out time a day at the very least just to keep her being too tired to destroy the house.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

I won't even start to give you my opinion of the RSPCA, that's a whole different thread

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Penny-Pincher!!

elfen wrote: »

I think that if something is working for you (as long as it is light taps, not too hard that would hurt) then go on with it. Mum's way of dealing with unwanted behaviour was a light tap to the nose or to the bum, and none of our dogs growled, or tried to nip her. They saw her as head of the pack, and treated her as such.

Thanks Elfen. I did ask the vet about a light smack and he said that was fine but suggested not to smack his nose as it may affect their smell.

I dont think I have done anything wrong as I would never cause suffering to even my worst enemy.

PP
xx

supermezzo

Lemony wrote: »

He is too young to go for walks. He only had his second injections yesterday and I have to wait at least a week before I can walk him. I'm also having trouble with his halter collar because the smallest one I could buy is too big for him and he spends the whole time with his jaw hooked in it chewing it! As far as the 'top dog' thing goes, I have been feeding him after he has watched me eat, and I don't play any tug of war type games with him as I don't want to encourage any aggression. He has loads of chew toys but he prefers stealing anything he knows he's not allowed. I put toys in his mouth and shake them about to make them look interesting but he just grabs hold of my skin and pulls! On one occasion when I was trying to dry him with a towel he went crazy and was biting my wrists and growling and grabbing the towel so I did try holding him down absolutely still to calm him. However, it seemed to make him worse and then I was worried that if I ever scared him (he definitely wasn't scared that time) he might have a reason to bite humans in the future... so I haven't done that since.

I'm a bit confused by this. Why are you using a halter collar if he hasn't been out for a walk yet, how do you know he needs one? Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly...?

tandraig

Lemony - I understand your frustration - all you wanted to know was whether this is normal puppy behaviour, whether other people had dealt with it and what successful methods they used! I apologise for the stroll down memory lane. I didnt have a prob with the staffy but as i mentioned the springer was overexitable and would nip out of sheer excitement (as I saw it). my method was similar to how i treated the kids! put them down and walk away and refuse to play until they calmed down. as i said - I did sometimes have to clamp her mouth shut when she was nipping me - she did it most often if i picked her up or we were on floor playing games. sounds like you may have an exitable dog too. with meggy - the springer, i just sometimes had to shut her in another room or stop the game - she learned the sit fairly quickly and sometimes (if we were on floor ) just telling her sit would calm her a bit. but i learned not to make a fuss of her by stroking etc when she was hyper - just ignore her til she calmed down.
also i didnt attemp to teach her if she was hyper. games were played after we went through the lessons and only if she remained calm. I couldnt use the high pitched encouraging tone with her either. I had to learn a different technique with her - as i found she responded better to my OHs deeper manly voice i tried using a deeper voice and found it worked with her. this didnt happen overnight it took months of trial and error and i seriously thought about rehoming her once or twice. but she was brilliant with the kids and i persevered and she was a lovely sweet dog who wouldnt dream of biting people or other dogs.