Warm Front has gone cold

Gizmosmum_2

realsurfer wrote: »

I hope this is appropriate as I already posted over on an air source heat pump (ASH)P thread before discovering this one.
My mother is to have an ASHP and oversized radiators fitted free under a scheme from HEES delivered by eaga.. However when the eagaheat installation engineer came to draw up the plans he said that the pipework had to be in the ceiling and down the wall and across the skirting to each radiator because he was Quote "not allowed to bury the pipework in concrete".
Since then I have discovered the bungalow has screed floor into which are neat channels (4 "x 2" with mdf sides and removable tops) that carry the existing pipework for the old lpg central heating. When I recently asked him to reconsider and put the pipes to the radiators in the existing ducting he has said that it was under the rules of the grant scheme that he was not allowed to run pipework under the floor and all had to be from the ceiling down. Anything else would be in danger of failing inspection and he would be forced to have it replaced at his cost. Frankly this doesnt ring true considering the suitability of ASHP and underfloor heating. I wonder if anyone has experience of ASHP and radiator installation with eaga or Warmfront under grants that can comment or alternatively if you had pipes run under floors or in channels in solid floors under eaga grants?
Obviously I don't want to hack off the installer company by repeatedly questioning the truth but I wonder how to find out the rules that govern this installation.
Thanks

It's not a question of ability of installer company but eaga's criteria for installation which is agreed with Defra before installers tender. So the installer is right when he says he's not supposed to bury the pipes. I guess in this economic climate he's worried about losing guaranteed work so he's more likely to tow the line.

As I understand it eaga have a massively over subscribed scheme and are trying to level out the number of installs each month to keep installers/staff consistently in work. If they installed for everyone on their list they will sort everyone out ready for this winter but their employees and subcontractors won't have any more work until April 2011 and that's assuming that Warm Front doesn't take a massive hit in the Spending Review in October.

They can't prioritise the work because everyone that is accepted on the scheme is a priority. It's not a perfect system by any means but I guess it's better than nothing.

realsurfer

Thank you for your answer.
How is it that pipes in a mdf sided channel and with a removable 3/4 inch mdf top are classed as buried? I am pretty sure it is not under building regulations or water authority regulations. The pipes are in an air or insulated space above the concrete pad and topped with a length of mdf. .Surely this is the equivalent of a floorboard? Surely this is the equivalent of a floorboard? Or even the equivalent of a short run of underfloor heating? And we have already heard that others have pipes installed under floorboards and ASHP are widely regarded as most appropriate for under floor heating.
How do I go about looking at the critera for installation as agreed with Defra? And is Defra the correct body (I know they offer a grant towards an ASHP but is that appropriate in this case?
Have defra really specified that all installations by eaga under this particular grant scheme have to be ceiling down? Also was told all radiators supposed to be back to back although the installation design he put forward ignores this so cant be too worried about bending/breaking the rules (if they exist). Also the hot water to the taps (kitchen and bathroom) will still have their supply through these existing channels in the screed. Just doesn't add up.
mark

Gizmosmum_2

realsurfer wrote: »

Thank you for your answer.
How is it that pipes in a mdf sided channel and with a removable 3/4 inch mdf top are classed as buried? I am pretty sure it is not under building regulations or water authority regulations. The pipes are in an air or insulated space above the concrete pad and topped with a length of mdf. .Surely this is the equivalent of a floorboard? Surely this is the equivalent of a floorboard? Or even the equivalent of a short run of underfloor heating? And we have already heard that others have pipes installed under floorboards and ASHP are widely regarded as most appropriate for under floor heating.
How do I go about looking at the critera for installation as agreed with Defra? And is Defra the correct body (I know they offer a grant towards an ASHP but is that appropriate in this case?
Have defra really specified that all installations by eaga under this particular grant scheme have to be ceiling down? Also was told all radiators supposed to be back to back although the installation design he put forward ignores this so cant be too worried about bending/breaking the rules (if they exist). Also the hot water to the taps (kitchen and bathroom) will still have their supply through these existing channels in the screed. Just doesn't add up.
mark

The bulk work goes out to european tender and then installers submit their tenders that are valid for a specified time period - usually the same period that the money has been allocated to Warm Front for. You can't change this once it's in place. So if the tender required a pink elephant to be left in every living room that's what the installer winning the contract has to do no matter how ludicrous it is.

eaga need to take a slice out of the costs for promotion and management so the installers are usually screwed into the gound on cost and I've heard that to make a profit on an installation they need to install in a day. Materials are supplied by eaga, system specification is provided by eaga, admin provided by eaga - there's often not a lot of room for movement from the contractor. Add to this muliple visits if the customer has lots of queries about the install and the profit disappears to dust.

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be queried, as consumers we have every right, but sometimes the installer can take the hassle for systems that are beyond his/her control and inefficent management of a programmes that can't be changed easily because its gone through european tendering. Every query for an installation is potentially lost survey/sale for other work.

skeating86

Hi All,

Not sure if im posting here correctly but here goes.


Hope someone can help on the 7th of August i had smelt gas and called the engineers out to take a look, when they come out they have disconnected the gas and have condemed the boiler as of now i have no heating and hot water.

I have asked my landlord to get something done but was told he didnt have the money to get this done.

So my next idea was to apply for the home warm front grant they have some out and done the survey one the house and was told that the next step was that they would contact the landlord to seek permission for either a new boiler or the current boiler to be repaired.

I have contacted home warm front and it has now been two weeks since they have sent the permission letter out but haven't received it back.

my next question is what are my other options that are out there for me?

Gizmosmum_2

skeating86 wrote: »

Hi All,

Not sure if im posting here correctly but here goes.


Hope someone can help on the 7th of August i had smelt gas and called the engineers out to take a look, when they come out they have disconnected the gas and have condemed the boiler as of now i have no heating and hot water.

I have asked my landlord to get something done but was told he didnt have the money to get this done.

So my next idea was to apply for the home warm front grant they have some out and done the survey one the house and was told that the next step was that they would contact the landlord to seek permission for either a new boiler or the current boiler to be repaired.

I have contacted home warm front and it has now been two weeks since they have sent the permission letter out but haven't received it back.

my next question is what are my other options that are out there for me?

Try your local authority they might have a grant that your landlord can tap into. If you have a disability and you're left without water or heating they may be able to get something sorted through their Disabled Facilities grant or a Renovation grant.

If there's something it will be means tested but if you qualify for Warm Front then you should be ok. Failing that most of the utilities have hardship funds that ocassionally cover the cost of boilers in extreme cases.

Small charities can also have hardship funds that might help, the British Legion are good at supporting people who have links to the forces and if you have a specific disease - say Parkinsons/heart disease then sometimes the societies linked to those have small pots of money.

Good luck - don't rely on Warm Front for this year. That's a bit optimistic and their funding is under threat on 20th October.

jcorbygas

skeating 86 - why did they condemn the boiler ie what is the problem with it - it might need a second opinion and in any case your landlord is not able to just say he cant afford it - he needs to supply you with at least hot water and then some form of heating when it get colder.
We go to quite a few cases where the boiler has been condemned and that is just because the previous engineers are not qualified/experienced enough to find the fault and remedy it and it is easier for them to just condemn.