Employment Tribunal ... what are my chances ?

dickydonkin

Half Time Scores

greendollar 1 - Former Employer 0

greendollar

UPDATE .
A case management by phone was ordered by the judge so it can be decided exactly what needs to be in the bundle . This is due to take place in a couple of weeks and my ex-employers solicitors have been in touch saying that they will be requesting I put a deposit down to cover their costs should I lose .
They have also requested information regarding my income and assets and all job vacancies I have applied for (the names of the companies and dates since Aug 2008), a request the judge has already told them is intrusive and that as I am claiming JSA it shows I am mitigating my losses .
I have also had to send them 4 schedule of losses ( because of postponements) none of which they are happy with and are complaining about them .
They are also lying about our witness statements and paperwork saying they have been amended / new ones put in. They have had all our statements for over a year , none of which have been changed in anyway shape or form.
Talking to my union rep it seems they haven't a clue what they're doing and hopefully they will feel the wrath of the judge once again .
It seems a bit late in the day to start asking the judge for any of this , they've had nearly 2 years to sort this out but have done their upmost to frustrate the process , I'm hoping the judge can see what they are doing .

zzzLazyDaisy

The judge won't hear a deposit application at this stage and anyway wouldn't hear it over the phone, there would have to be another hearing.

The issues surrounding your income, job hunting, etc will only come into play if they lose the case and are not relevant at this stage. The only thing they are entitled to is the schedule of loss which you have already provided. They are not entitled to information about your assets at all.

In summary this is more of their bully boy tactics.

My guess is that this file has been passed around the office like a hot potato and no-one has actually taken responsibility for sorting it out. As you say, hopefully the judge will read the riot act to them!

Uncertain

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

The judge won't hear a deposit application at this stage and anyway wouldn't hear it over the phone, there would have to be another hearing.

The issues surrounding your income, job hunting, etc will only come into play if they lose the case and are not relevant at this stage. The only thing they are entitled to is the schedule of loss which you have already provided. They are not entitled to information about your assets at all.

In summary this is more of their bully boy tactics.

My guess is that this file has been passed around the office like a hot potato and no-one has actually taken responsibility for sorting it out. As you say, hopefully the judge will read the riot act to them!

At the risk of going slightly off topic......

When does a firm of solicitors behaving as described above become misconduct? Also, can a person on the receiving end of this sort of nonsense make a complaint to the OSS (or whatever they are now called) or can this only be done by their client?

zzzLazyDaisy

Uncertain wrote: »

At the risk of going slightly off topic......

When does a firm of solicitors behaving as described above become misconduct? Also, can a person on the receiving end of this sort of nonsense make a complaint to the OSS (or whatever they are now called) or can this only be done by their client?

Its a fair question, but really you have hit the nail on the head - in reality the only person who can complain is their client.

The tribunal have the power to order costs against a respondent in extreme circumstances (against the client, not the solicitor) and could in very extreme circumstances strike out the respondent's case. In reality neither is likely to happen.

I am ashamed (for the profession) to have to admit that these sort of bullying and delaying tactics are a not uncommon feature of employment tribunal cases.

I am currently helping someone with a tribunal case, and so far the solicitor has failed to respond to correspondence, failed to comply with any of the directions and has successfully had the case postponed twice. He is claiming this is due to the ill health of their main witness, but no medical evidence has been submitted and the grapevine has it that there is nothing much wrong with him. If the case goes to tribunal I'd bet my house that they'll lose, but no doubt they will string it out on the basis that the money is better in their account for as long as possible....

Unless the tribunal get a grip of things and use the sanctions available to them, this sort of thing will just continue.

greendollar

Thanks for the replies ,
By the time the next hearing is scheduled , Aug / Sept , it will be over 2 years since my dismissal . All the delays have been due to my ex-employers failings .
At my hearing the judge was enraged ( to the point that I thought I was going to get the decision by default ) because they had failed to comply with an order . My case was being dealt with by their own leagal department ( they are a huge multi national company employing thousands ) but was passed on to a firm of solicitors from Scotland weeks before my hearing, on the day of my hearing the flew a solicitor from Glasgow to the south of England hear my case and they think I'm going to foot the bill should I lose .
They are a joke and the repeated threats have just made me more determined to fight on but if the judge orders that I have to put a deposit down then I'm pretty much sunk .

dickydonkin

Hi Greendollar

Your case seems to be bordering on farce at times - you could not make it up.

Your former employer certainly seems resolute - misguided at times in my opinion - but by continuously deploying bullying tactics, they are really doing themselves no favours.

This bizarre request should certainly be mentioned to the tribunal panel and I would expect they will again take a very dim view if the methods they are using.

They are a joke and the repeated threats have just made me more determined to fight on but if the judge orders that I have to put a deposit down then I'm pretty much sunk .

I suspect this would be extremely unlikely - that would be akin to you asking the judge to request your former employer also leaves a deposit towards any award that may be forthcoming should they lose the case. In fact, why not respond in the same vein by doing just that!

I have never heard anything like this and perhaps someone can enlighten you if this is precedented in employment tribunals - I suspect not.

They are just trying to cast doubts in your mind - don't rise to it!

zzzLazyDaisy

greendollar wrote: »

if the judge orders that I have to put a deposit down then I'm pretty much sunk .

You won't be ordered to put a deposit down.

Your union rep is not a lawyer, and this is a legal issue, so he really should be seeking advice from the union solicitor.

The union rep should make telephone notes of all conversations where costs have been threatened and make copies of all letters and make a list of dates that these threats have been made, so he can hand them to the tribunal if/when you win, and ask for an order for costs against them in respect of their unreasonable conduct.

If were advising you I would write to them along the following lines:

'We refer to your letters and telephone calls of [insert all dates] in which you have threatened to obtain an order for costs against Mr Greendollar.

Please note that we view the respondents constant threats of costs as harassment - particularly bearing in mind the respondent's conduct of this case to date. You will of course be aware of the EAT decision in Simms v McKee 2006 in which costs were awarded against an employer who used these tactics.

We are therefore writing to put you on notice that if, as expected, Mr Greendollar is successful in his tribunal claim, we reserve the right to produce this course of correspondence to the tribunal in support of an application for costs and/or a preparation order against the respondent.

Yours etc

As I say, your union rep really should ask the union's legal dept for advice on this issue because unless you put a shot across their bows, they will just continue to harass you with costs threats.

dickydonkin

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

You won't be ordered to put a deposit down.

Your union rep is not a lawyer, and this is a legal issue, so he really should be seeking advice from the union solicitor.

The union rep should make telephone notes of all conversations where costs have been threatened and make copies of all letters and make a list of dates that these threats have been made, so he can hand them to the tribunal if/when you win, and ask for an order for costs against them in respect of their unreasonable conduct.

If were advising you I would write to them along the following lines:

'We refer to your letters and telephone calls of [insert all dates] in which you have threatened to obtain an order for costs against Mr Greendollar.

Please note that we view the respondents constant threats of costs as harassment - particularly bearing in mind the respondent's conduct of this case to date. You will of course be aware of the EAT decision in Simms v McKee 2006 in which costs were awarded against an employer who used these tactics.

We are therefore writing to put you on notice that if, as expected, Mr Greendollar is successful in his tribunal claim, we reserve the right to produce this course of correspondence to the tribunal in support of an application for costs and/or a preparation order against the respondent.

Yours etc

As I say, your union rep really should ask the union's legal dept for advice on this issue because unless you put a shot across their bows, they will just continue to harass you with costs threats.

Good post zzzLazyDaisy-I have looked up the case you referred to and found this very interesting.

What is also highlighted and a very crucial aspect of taking an employer to tribunal is the importance of being appropriately represented.

Without being disrespectful to the union rep who is representing Greendollar, as I have alluded to in an earlier post, where there is precedent (such as the case zzzLazyDaisy has highlighted), points of law and indeed just general employment law, it is possible he may have shortcomings in this respect.

It is also likely that this harrassment by Greendollar's former employer would have been nipped in the bud some time ago.

greendollar

Hi ,
I've had a chat with my union rep and he will be asking the judge to try and put a stop to the threats , I'm pretty sure the judge said as much at the last hearing and don't think he will take kindly to my ex-employers continued harrassment ,
It seems to us that my ex-employers really can't grasp anything we're telling them , they don't seem fussed they haven't followed statutory or even their own procedures , won't or can't understand the most basic questions about anything and everything to do with this case . We can't work out what they're up too , I mean why request information from me that the tribunal has already told them is intrusive and been refused , surely after the last hearing when he tore them to shreds they wouldn't risk upsetting the judge again , or can these people be that stupid . The documents they say have been amended have not , we can prove this , they are saying they've only just received them , we can prove they've had them for over a year . Whats going on ????