Employment Tribunal ... what are my chances ?

joanne_d_3

Greendollar

1k ? Im afraid i dont blame you for turning down their offer , its laughable!



When you know you are in the right its worth hanging on .

joanne

dickydonkin

but my union rep has back tracked somewhat , sunday he was very confident , yesterday he wanted me to take the offer?

And his employment law and tribunal experience is????????????????

MrsP's first offer was also 1k which was obviously refused.

Irrespective of any contributory factors in relation to your dismissal, the company still have to follow procedures to implement the dismissal and it would seem they had pre - determined your fate prior to your appeal which in itself is a clear breach of protocol.

You have gone this far and you are approaching the finish line and if I was in your position, I would hang on in there.

zzzLazyDaisy

The normal rule in employment tribunals is that each party pays their own costs, win or lose. Costs will only be awarded if the party has behaved vexatiously or unreasonably.

It is very common for employers to write costs letters threatening to claim their costs against the employee, but they are bullying tactics with the express intention of intimidating the employee, and frowned on by the tribunal. I would make sure your union informs them that should you win at tribunal, as expected, they will produce to the tribunal copies of all the letters threatening costs and will seek a costs order against them (Simms v McKee).

There has been a massive increase in these letters since the upper limit for costs awards was increased, but never the less the number of actual costs orders made is still extremely low, and the amount is normally negligible - just a token payment, not the whole amount.

The fact is that your ex-employers are bullies. They are probably very unwilling to produce the managers concerned as they will probably make poor witnesses. If it is your case that you only admitted the offence because you were encourage to do so by the manager as a precondition of getting your job back then you must make that clear - and the manager must come along and give his side of the story. It will then be up to the tribunal as to who they believe - but if the manager does not attend, then the tribunal will normally believe you.

You have come this far. The fact that they have had this case postponed three times suggests that they don't want to deal with it. It is a game that employers play - it not unusual for cases to settle at the tribunal while you are waiting to go into the hearing.

The only worrying thing is that, if the union have recommended that you accept the offer, and you refuse, they may withdraw representation. Are you represented by a TU rep, or by a solicitor appointed by the union to act on your behalf?

dickydonkin

The only worrying thing is that, if the union have recommended that you accept the offer, and you refuse, they may withdraw representation. Are you represented by a TU rep, or by a solicitor appointed by the union to act on your behalf?

That was what I was wondering.

It is a little worrying if the union have not provided a solicitor and are relying on a union rep who will quite possibly be out of his/her depth in a tribunal situation.

I think this is why the former employer is using threats because I believe that if a solicitor was involved, this would not happen.

Although I appreciate that Unions are now strapped for cash, I am finding it difficult to comprehend that they are only providing a union representative to fight a claim in tribunal.

It may be that due to the threats of reclaiming costs and potential redress against the union, the reps @r$e is dropping out and he will obviously deem an acceptance of a derisory amount as a victory for the union at the expense of the claimant.

greendollar - read my earlier post about the safety aspect of your situation.

An appeal 1 month after dismissal - wow! That itself is an unreasonable time to hear an appeal - I bet that is a breach of the company's own disciplinary procedure.


Keep your head up and go for it and don't let them grind you down.

zzzLazyDaisy

Have you prepared a Chronology of Events for the Tribunal?

Normally you would do this and get the other side to agree it, but it is still worth doing if you have time.

It is simply a list of the main events in date order of what happened. It just helps the tribunal to see the wood from the trees. Also if you stick to the basic facts, the employer should confirm that it is accurate, and that is also useful for the tribunal. If you have a copy of the notice that is dated the day before your disciplinary, you should include that in the chronology.

So it might look something like this

CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

12.03.2001 commencement of claimant's employment
15.07.2009 claimant suspended from work on allegation of misconduct
21.07.2009 workforce informed of claimant's departure
22.07.2009 disciplinary hearing
05.08.2009 letter confirming claimant's dismissal
etc
etc
etc

Hope this helps

dickydonkin

But they do not think their failure to follow their own procedures or even statutory procedures will be a problem at the tribunal hence the offer of £1000

Once again, they would say that wouldn't they? See what the tribunal think!

I am sure the union rep will blow his own trumpet in respect of dealing with solicitors at tribunals.

Where points of law or legal precedent come into play, this is where your union rep could be found lacking.

As a former Union Secretary, all I would do is prepare the groundwork and then let the experts digest what information is available and let them progress the claim.

The reality is that solicitors could run rings around him, however, as long as you have provided the facts, the tribunal should have enough information to come to a decision.

greendollar - you are where you are and you cannot change anything now but don't lose hope.

See what happens at tribunal (if it gets there) but I am worried now that because of your doubts (in main - created by your union rep) you may accept a derisory offer.

greendollar

Yes , your right Mr P , my feeling is that if this goes to tribunal I will win my case for unfair dismissal but any award will be cut to zero due to my admission of the offence , no matter what sort of pressure I was under.
I have a choice , take a derisory offer or see it through . I'm inclined to see it through and hope the cost of the case will ultimately cost the manager his job (what goes around , comes around ).

My union rep is coming down today and we're going to see how we proceed from here , hopefully I'll have a better idea as to how its going to go then.

greendollar

Well , up early this morning , very nervous but alot happier after my meeting with the union .
He raised some good points .

Now I have to be prepared to face their solicitor who is just going to bang on about me lying .

dickydonkin

Now I have to be prepared to face their solicitor who is just going to bang on about me lying .

Don't worry about it greendollar.

Based on all of your posts, it seems that the company have made a complete mess of the whole situation.

They seem to have been more focussed on getting rid of you and have taken their eye of the ball in respect of following statutory and their own procedures.

It may be likely the tribunal may not be as interested in the alleged 'offence' but may evaluate the methods used to dismiss you which I am sure the company and their legal team will acknowledge are a sham.

Regarding the lack of rules on riding on wagons - Although not mentioned anywhere in rulebooks, was it mentioned anywhere in training or induction??

If so, it is likely that this practice had become a 'routine violation' in which the company turn a blind eye to but have decided to impose punishment on you as a means of attempting to discipline you.

Forget the negatives that must be going on in your mind right now because it seems you have enough tangible damning evidence that will certainly be in your favour - I am sure your former employer is aware of this and that is why I believe another offer will be forthcoming.

i feel that this is not your first deviation from our safety standards

A completely subjective assertion that will not stand up in tribunal without evidence and is irrelevant in this situation.

greendollar

Sorry but I've been adsvised to edit my posts .

Those of you who have been following know the jist of whats going on , if not then feel free to pm me .

Well , I've come back after watching the other side get what I can only describe as an embarrassing dressing down from the tribunal judge , he was livid . But we have yet another postponement so they can get their act together .
Very funny to watch them walk away with their tails between their legs .
Didn't stop them harping on about their costs though .