University degree not worth as much as touted

Really2

I suppose how I think is a degree should get you a decent career.

Not just a necessity for getting any job, if every one had one it would just make the higher paid jobs worse paid.

We are still going to need manual workers, waitresses etc, etc. I would hate to think some one who worked hard on a degree for 3 years could only do the above (even though they are decent jobs for people)

Higher education in my eyes is to fill the jobs that require it, not to make people well educated for no reason.
Not sure how that comes across but I would prefer the person serving me my dinner not having to have studied 3 years to have done it.

lostinrates

StevieJ wrote: »

Yes LIR but which ever way you look at it many of the degrees today are specific and weak intellectually.

Yes, I agree and think I have said as much.

My preference would be a broader based subject choice for 16-18 yo (e.g. baccalaureate rather than A level ). 16 is very, very young to narrow options so much. Those with outstanding skill in a specialised area will always be exceptions, and always have been.

Part of the value of further and higher education is learning to learn and research, to have access to wider knowledge...not cheaper beer at the SU. I think there are students seeing both former and latter advantages on most courses. I don't think 18 i too early to take some specialisation (i.e. UK system rather than US system) nor to start ''specialising'' on career pathway: e.g. acknowledging that practical skills are a priority over academic. I also think that the transfer between similar courses on practical pathways and academic ones (HND conversions etc) needs some review...but I also acknowledge my own bias about that because of personal experience.

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

I suppose how I think is a degree should get you a decent career.

Not just a necessity for getting any job, if every one had one it would just make the higher paid jobs worse paid.

We are still going to need manual workers, waitresses etc, etc. I would hate to think some one who worked hard on a degree for 3 years could only do the above (even though they are decent jobs for people)

Higher education in my eyes is to fill the jobs that require it, not to make people well educated for no reason.
Not sure how that comes across but I would prefer the person serving me my dinner not having to have studied 3 years to have done it.

I'd like to be educated for no reason...or no financial reason. I do not agree the state (or rather the tax payer) should fund it. There is no reason not to learn if you want to, and there are ways, and perhaps these should be further developed ..to do this other than traditional university route.

Degrees don't, and shouldn't, automatically mean a higher income...suitability for a job is based on more than academic ability, and pay for a job based on more than education.

Pobby

I`m not sure that a degree always cuts it as far as earnings go. I have a relative with dyslexia, doesn`t stop him earning £100k per annum. I have friends with PHDs earning much less. I have operated as self employed for about 25 years. Good years at a bit under 50k and right now it`s a bit around 20k but part time. I dare say that I could up that a fair bit but I am enjoying a bit of winding down time and having most days off.

There are real skills that can be learned to provide a decent income with out a degree. I did start to train as a teacher but illness enforced a long stay at hospital.

kabayiri

Do people remember when the politicians were selling this mass University attendance plan to us a few years back?

I remember some Labour politico pointing to a 3K annual earning differential (I think) between degree holders and non holders. This was a justification, it was said, for the fees being seen as 'investment'.

I found it somewhat disingenuine at the time. The old laws of supply and demand clearly change the earning landscape when a majority of the populace hold a degree.

carolt

Really2 wrote: »

Depends what they do? If it is the same as the jobs now it makes no difference.

Unless every job needs one and we forgo assembly, waitresses etc how can it change.

Look at china, the people who have avoid the recession / or longest recessions are the ones that can produce.

Our reliance on service is one of the reason we are struggling to get out. A microbiologist working in Macdonalds still only flips as many burgers that are needed the degree does not create a higher burger demand.

I think the argument is that we can't and don't wish to compete with China - we want an educated workforce so we can be the next Germany, Japan etc.

carolt

Really2 wrote: »

But your point was being trained for a specifc job then it not being available locally again. So although intresting to know it is not the same as your previous point.

My point is once you lose a job in your chosen trained career and that goes and there is nothing local and you cant move. (as per your point earlier)
The degree makes no difference you are looking at a life changing event.

I am not dissing degrees here carol but I think you are failing to realise a degree does not protect you form life changing events.
The majority of people by age with degrees will be the hardest hit by this recession.(under 24's)

Degree or not if there ain't a job you have to re-evaluate what you are going to do.

TBH if the job is not public sector or Law most companies will judge work based experience as relevent as a degree. I could get interviews for jobs the same as mine on experience, perhaps that would change if I was unemployed but I could now (and have in the past)

Totally disagree - my OH's cousin is in a pickle bcause without a degree, his years of very specific experience count for nothing. Sure, he can get a burger-flipping job, but that's not what he needs to pay the mortgage.

With a degree all the generic admin/management type jobs become open to you - a la my MIL. Even - as in her case - without the experience.

Due to having kids, my employment pattern has been on and off - I do 3 different part-time jobs (well, self-employed) - not one of those would I have been able to do without a degree. It provides a cushion - a shorthand to potential employers that you're basically intelligent and capable of sustained work.

You may not like that, but it's a fact.

Without a degree I'd still be able to get a job, but as a mum looking at reduced hours it would all be unskilled, checkout girl type work.

So from my own experience, I have to disagree.

StevieJ

carolt wrote: »

So from my own experience, I have to disagree.

But do you have a DEGREE or a degree

GDB2222

The report said the average high-school graduate earns $25,900 a year, and the average college graduate earns $45,400

These figures are fundamentally flawed, because the average college graduate is cleverer than the average school-leaver. Cleverer people tend to earn more, anyway. It is extremely difficult to sift out the effect on earnings of a clever person taking a college course or the same clever person going straight into business.

Some academics have had a go at doing the sums correctly, and the result is rather low estimates of the extra earned. You might want to look at this linky:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/6754287/A-university-degree-is-worth-2500-a-year.html

"A recent report said that students graduating with arts degrees earned barely more than those who left school at 18. "

carolt

StevieJ wrote: »

But do you have a DEGREE or a degree

Ermmm.... :question: