University degree not worth as much as touted

lostinrates

misskool wrote: »

Wow, 30-35k is an ordinary salary?

So many things to say but so little time (especially on this thread). There's the whole idea that people who go to university because they will earn more. However, there are a number (believe it or not), who go to learn and enjoy broadening their minds and stretching it. We get a whole range of them and I can tell within 5 minutes of teaching a class which is which.

Not everything is about the money btw, university lecturers don't earn 35k

I couldn't agree with the broadening thing more (sorry chucky!). Its not he only way to do it, and its not the universal experience of students, but the opportunity exists for all who want to take it of breadthening experience, knowledge, ability, socially....all in many different ways and directions. That more don't take these very real opportunities is a very sad: and is part of the problem IMO...part of the devaluation of the university experience(not just the qualification!)..its something that really can make tremendous amount of difference in the life of an individual.

carolt

As someone who went to university to study something because I loved it (and got my fees paid in those days too), I agree with misskool that there are other and arguably better reasons for going to university than increasing your earning potential.

Then again, if the economy is in a pickle, I can see why people feel that only those degrees that inspire £ should be encouraged/supported.

My solution would be to base funding on merit not only income - the best should be supported, but in sufficiently limited numbers that we, as a country, can afford it.

carolt

Deleted_User wrote: »

I left school in '79 with 3 o'levels. I worked for years as an Administrative Officer in the Civil Service. In the mid 90's I decided to do an HNC in Computer Applications so that I could perhaps get a slightly more interesting job. Surprisingly (to me) I did well and discovered a love of programming. I stayed on another year to do an HND in computing. From there I went to Uni for two years and graduated in 1999 with a first class honours degree in computing. I walked into a great job with great money and later went on to start my own business. So it really can change your life.....even if, like me, you think you're not the academic type.

But I think more important than the job and increased income is the fact that it opens up your mind. Even if I hadn't got a better job and income out of it I wouldn't have missed the opportunity for the world. I've gone on to do so many things that I wouldn't have done had I not had that education as a mature student. I would always recommend people to take the opportunity to receive a higher education - not just for work/money reasons.

Great post.

abaxas

teddy_ruckspin wrote: »

I agree.

Any blue chip worth it's salt simply looks to the UK's top ten universities and then selects those who have done a 'proper' subject.

Educational standards are not higher at red brick unis.

Eg Durham as a clause that is the library burns down, everyone automatically gets 2-1.

Newcastle university do non honours degrees over 5 years simply on attendance (these are designed for people who dont have degress to use as a stepping stone to a masters, ie 5 years of attendence then 1 year turbo full time masters) It's much easier for people without a degree to get on this way. And it's less work too !

Sad but true.

Really2

carolt wrote: »

OH's cousin was exactly the same as you, trained in his job, good pay - made redundant last year. Company closed down UK production. Not trained for anything else - what else can he do?

Just bought a house recently, got married, wife won't let him move elsewhere - not a good situation to be in.

Just to point out, university/broader education can be good when your lifeplan doesn't work out quite as smoothly as you hoped.

Why If you have a specific degree and have been working in a specific area how is it any different.

A degree is non work based education that is all. I can't see how the outcome of the above would be any different degree or not.

I did similar to Michaa but starting in sales (well acutually it all started earning money in school holidays) and progressing to company management and in that time trained in accountancy etc.
If it all fell down I think my working skills would be more important on a change of career than a certificate gained 10 years+ ago.

For a Degree to be important in my eyes it has to be related to your chosen career. That is why degrees are being devalued, people are doing any degree because they think it will earn them more money.
The shocker is when you hit work and it is not degree related you have to start at the same point and work as hard as everyone else.

SingleSue

mitchaa wrote: »

I left school at 16 and went straight into the workforce so 11 years ago now.

I never went to uni although my school qualifications (4 Scottish highers/A-Levels) were enough to get me in. I wanted to be an accountant, but gave up on that when I was offered a job as a scaffolders labourer:shhh: £160pw earnings tempted me and at 16yrs old back in 1999, it was a good deal of money back then. My parents went ape sh*t but it was my decision.

I stuck with that for a year and then got an apprenticeship as an Aircraft engineer and have never looked back since. It turned out well, I worked hard at it and my claim to fame would be that I was earning £50k at 25 years old. The magical 2x age salary that I had always 1 day hoped to achieve, I had managed.

Not many people earn £50k+ pa, even more so not as a 25yr old anyway so I am fortunate and lucky enough that my choice not to go to uni turned out well for me. I have seen a lot of my old school chums graduate from uni with £20k + worth of debts and not being able to get any degree relevant job afterwards so it is not the be all and end all.

I'll push my son into becoming a pilot if I can. No uni degree needed, just buckets of cash thrown towards flying lessons for his 18th birthday. The only way I will support him through uni is if he wanted to become a doctor.

However saying that when he's a teen, he'll probably tell me to ''Fu*k off dad, I want to be a dole dosser'' so we can only ever advise our brood, they'll do what they want.

I too left school at 16 and went straight into employment reaching management level in a corporate setting by age 20 and a high rate tax payer to boot!

Due to the above, I believed I had made the right choice to leave school rather than stay on and do A Levels and then Uni (I was bright enough) but that decision has now come back to bite me on the bum. I have the experience, I have the intelligence but I don't have that important piece of paper which opens the door to employment anymore, something which made no difference back in the mid 80's.

I'm now doing my degree but not the 'fun' way, no pub nights or alcohol, wandering into lectures bleary eyed from over doing it the night before but the fitting it in between school runs, hospital appointments, hospital admissions, the normal running of a home, school appointments etc way.

My children however, do realise the importance of education (well I have drummed it into them over the years so no choice really! ) and are already planning on A levels and Uni, with eldest due to start his A levels in September.

carolt

Really2 wrote: »

Why If you have a specific degree and have been working in a specific area how is it any different.

A degree is non work based education that is all. I can't see how the outcome of the above would be any different degree or not.

I did similar to Michaa but starting in sales (well acutually it all started earning money in school holidays) and progressing to company management and in that time trained in accountancy etc.
If it all fell down I think my working skills would be more important on a change of career than a certificate gained 10 years+ ago.

For a Degree to be important in my eyes it has to be related to your chosen career. That is why degrees are being devalued, people are doing any degree because they think it will earn them more money.
The shocker is when you hit work and it is not degree related you have to start at the same point and work as hard as everyone else.

Because in the case of the example I gave, he only knows how to build aircraft - it's extremely specialised and not transferable.

A degree - whether you think it's fair or not - does give you the opportunity to apply for all jobs that state they require a graduate.

And most degrees are less specialied than on-the-job training to build a specific type of aircraft.

Obviously, once you're in the job, a new graduate will be no better than a person whose experience is non-academic, but the reality is that the degree, these days, allows you to get those jobs in the first place.

The more common degrees become, the harder it will be for those without degrees to even be in a position to apply for jobs, let alone get them.

I'm not saying that's fair or right, but it's how it is.

[Deleted User]

Really2 wrote: »

Why If you have a specific degree and have been working in a specific area how is it any different.

A degree is non work based education that is all. I can't see how the outcome of the above would be any different degree or not.

I did similar to Michaa but starting in sales (well acutually it all started earning money in school holidays) and progressing to company management and in that time trained in accountancy etc.
If it all fell down I think my working skills would be more important on a change of career than a certificate gained 10 years+ ago.

For a Degree to be important in my eyes it has to be related to your chosen career. That is why degrees are being devalued, people are doing any degree because they think it will earn them more money.
The shocker is when you hit work and it is not degree related you have to start at the same point and work as hard as everyone else.

It's quite common to do a degree in one subject and work in a totally different field. The most valuable thing that I got from Uni (remember, I was a mature student so it's easy for me to determine what's natural ability and what's a result of education) is the ability to learn. I can apply the skills I developed in computing to all sorts of other fields.

Prior to uni all I could get was low paid office jobs. If I had to find work now my degree (and subsequent experience resulting from my degree) would give me far more options.

Of course, I did it 10 years ago. I don't know what it costs now. But I'd say to anyone - if you can do it then do.

Really2

SingleSue wrote: »

I too left school at 16 and went straight into employment reaching management level in a corporate setting by age 20 and a high rate tax payer to boot!

Due to the above, I believed I had made the right choice to leave school rather than stay on and do A Levels and then Uni (I was bright enough) but that decision has now come back to bite me on the bum. I have the experience, I have the intelligence but I don't have that important piece of paper which opens the door to employment anymore, something which made no difference back in the mid 80's.

I'm now doing my degree but not the 'fun' way, no pub nights or alcohol, wandering into lectures bleary eyed from over doing it the night before but the fitting it in between school runs, hospital appointments, hospital admissions, the normal running of a home, school appointments etc way.

Congrats on doing the degree Sue, and just playing Devils advocate do you think it is the piece of paper or the break from work that has stopped you getting back into management?
Personally if I lost my Job I would expect to have to work my way up again to some extent.
I think the open university will show a new employer you are dedicated and most probably more employable because of that, but being an employer work brakes can be the major problem. I could never expect to be at the same level I am now if I had a 15 year break, it would be virtually starting again.
But the degree will give you more options for jobs that require degrees.

Really2

Deleted_User wrote: »

It's quite common to do a degree in one subject and work in a totally different field. The most valuable thing that I got from Uni (remember, I was a mature student so it's easy for me to determine what's natural ability and what's a result of education) is the ability to learn. I can apply the skills I developed in computing to all sorts of other fields.

Prior to uni all I could get was low paid office jobs. If I had to find work now my degree (and subsequent experience resulting from my degree) would give me far more options.

Of course, I did it 10 years ago. I don't know what it costs now. But I'd say to anyone - if you can do it then do.

But in the example I was thinking of say biochemistry, if you did that job for 15 years what would your degree do if you had no local biochemistry jobs. (once you have been doing that job for so long that is what your next employer looks at as your degree is not proof you can change career at a flip of a hat)

Most work skills are transportable from company to company. Without knowing what carols cousin did it is hard to say. But say accoutancy is no different what ever industry your company is currently in.

I think degrees are worth wile if your industry needs that (teaching etc) but get a masters in something and then not achiving anything at work is a bit of a waste IMHO