University degree not worth as much as touted

stonethrower

Charterhouse wrote: »

It's fairly easy, those who actually want to go to Uni and are smart enough to get into a good one to read a proper degree should. Those who fail either of those tests shouldn't. It's a total waste of public money that Blair suddenly decided 50% of the population should go, regardless of whether they were good enough or had any desire to.

You shouldn't talk sense

ninky_2

it's interesting everyone is still touting uk unis as the best option. what about the sorbonne? or harvard?

MissMoneypenny

Really2 wrote: »

But is seems like the educated have a lot against the self made person. Why is that?

I assume I am one of these "educated" people you are talking about as I made the "silk purse" comment you are referring too?

I left school at 16 with no A levels. I did my degree in my late 40s with the OU.
Times have changed now and a lot of jobs now require a prospective employee to have certain degrees, hence why I encouraged my children to study as I thought they could get a good science degree and they did.

I just can't see the point of people putting their child (and themselves if they have to struggle to pay for private schools) through all that strain just to get any degree if it is hard for the child. Have you seen what electricians earn?

I have already mentioned my son's friend who earns a fortune as a basketball player. What would he be doing if his parents had forced him to do any degree "for his own good"?

The student who I said my son shared a house with in his second year and then failed his degree, only wanted to be a lorry driver. His parents spent a fortune on his education and he wasn't allowed to forget that. He rebelled and moved away from them to do manual work in Oz. He loves his life, but his parents think he is ungrateful.

In a reasonable state school, a clever child will do well.

Really2

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

I assume I am one of these "educated" people you are talking about as I made the "silk purse" comment you are referring too?

I left school at 16 with no A levels. I did my degree in my late 40s with the OU.
Times have changed now and a lot of jobs now require a prospective employer to have certain degrees, hence why I encouraged my children to study as I thought they could get a good science degree and they did.

I just can't see the point of people putting their child (and themselves if they have to struggle to pay for private schools) through all that strain just to get any degree if it is hard for the child. Have you seen what electricians earn?

I have already mentioned my son's friend who earns a fortune as a basketball player. What would he be doing if his parents had forced him to do any degree "for his own good"?

The student who I said my son shared a house with in his second year and then failed his degree, only wanted to be a lorry driver. His parents spent a fortune on his education and he wasn't allowed to forget that. He rebelled and moved away from them to do manual work in Oz. He loves his life, but his parents think he is ungrateful.

In a reasonable state school, a clever child will do well.

It wasn't aimed at yourself personally (just the way some of the comments were going) and I agree on the basket ball player comments above but it does not mean they can't do it does it? (EG it is totally pointless for career but does not mean he could not get a degree. For what it is worth I agree no one should do a degree if it will not have any bearing on future employment)

It sounds like you spent money on your children's educations but are the reasons you did it actually any different to any other parent?
You can only give your child what you think is best.

From your sons friend it does not sound like he was a "sows ear" he just did not want to do it or it was just not progressing for him (for reasons unkown pheraps he felt he knew it all already.).
The conversation was leaning towards some can not be taught, I think some of the bearing on that has to come down to the teacher as well as upbringing (early education).
Go back to my comments on cleverness and perceived disruptive students and you may see what I mean.

I cant agree on your last comment on state schools because you are associating cleverness and academia they are not the same.
You could have an IQ of 150 but have little academic success.

Personally with target as they are state schools give the average/above a good education and the cleverest a poor one.
I think that is where education system falls down, we don't play to children's strengths and do a one cap fits all approach.

MissMoneypenny

Really2 wrote: »

It wasn't aimed at yourself personally (just the way some of the comments were going) and I agree on the basket ball player comments above but it does not mean they can't do it does it?

Why should he have to do a degree, just to say he has a degree? Some degrees are not worth anything to employers.

Really2 wrote: »

It sounds like you spent money on your children's educations but are the reasons you did it actually any different to any other parent?

Mine went to state schools - the local comprehensive. I know where you are coming from though. I spend ages and ages pouring over the good schools lists in papers and even bought some books on good school guides. It seems to be a fear of parents, that they will somehow fail their child with their education. You won't.

Really2 wrote: »

From your sons friend it does not sound like he was a "sows ear" he just did not want to do it or it was just not progressing for him (for reasons unkown pheraps he felt he knew it all already.).

Even he would admit that he didn't know it all, already. He freely admits that his teachers got him his A grades and that he struggled with his degree work. He is a really nice guy and is happy with the job he has and his life.

Really2 wrote: »

The conversation was leaning towards some can not be taught, I think some of the bearing on that has to come down to the teacher as well as upbringing (early education).
Go back to my comments on cleverness and perceived disruptive students and you may see what I mean.

Everyone has their limits. Some are good at some things ie basketball and others have strengths elsewhere. Parents spend a lot more time with their children than teachers do, so I agree that a lot of learning to learn comes from their home life.

Having a degree is not everything. Richard Branson and Bill Gates haven't got an earned degree. I left school early as I wanted to be a show jumper. I don't know why I thought that as my parents didn't have money and I doubt I had the skill to make it to the top in that sport:D And before you say it, I didn't have a pony from my parents, nor did they pay for my lessons. The library was my friend.

ukcarper

carolt wrote: »

It did pretty things to the unemployment figures, though.

If you are saying it improve unemployment figures because people were at university and not on the dole wouldn’t it have only improved them for 3years. If your saying it improved it because the degree enabled more people to find employment isn’t that good.

MissMoneypenny

Really2 wrote: »

Personally with target as they are state schools give the average/above a good education and the cleverest a poor one.
I think that is where education system falls down, we don't play to children's strengths and do a one cap fits all approach.

I see you added a bit while I replying.

I think it is the other way around. A reasonable state school will help the clever. Those that need more help, a private school may be better with the smaller classes.

There was a boy at my childrens comp who was a maths genius. He just picked up the text books and taught himself. He even told the teachers when they were wrong. He went to a good university and easily got a first in maths. His mother was very good at keeping him well grounded, so that he didn't turn into a weirdo.

Just to add, don't think that private school have better teachers. I know someone who failed her A levels and went on to teach at a private school.

Really2

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Why should he have to do a degree, just to say he has a degree? Some degrees are not worth anything to employers.



Mine went to state schools - the local comprehensive. I know where you are coming from though. I spend ages and ages pouring over the good schools lists in papers and even bought some books on good school guides. It seems to be a fear of parents, that they will somehow fail their child with their education. You won't.



Even he would admit that he didn't know it all, already. He freely admits that his teachers got him his A grades and that he struggled with his degree work. He is a really nice guy and is happy with the job he has and his life.



Everyone has their limits. Some are good at some things ie basketball and others have strengths elsewhere. Parents spend a lot more time with their children than teachers do, so I agree that a lot of learning to learn comes from their home life.

Having a degree is not everything. Richard Branson and Bill Gates haven't got an earned degree. I left school early as I wanted to be a show jumper. I don't know why I thought that as my parents didn't have money and I doubt I had the skill to make it to the top in that sport:D And before you say it, I didn't have a pony from my parents, nor did they pay for my lessons. The library was my friend.

Sorry I did a little edit on the fist point before you posted. (re basketball player I agree with you)

I can't say I disagree with anything you said.
I have said it on here I believe you should do a degree because it has a relevance to what you want to do for a career. (EG lawyer, teacher etc).

Also 100% agree on the basketball player and why it devalues degrees.
If people do any degree for the sake if it, it down values the ones that have them for a reason. Also it then become a horrible waste of time resources and money if there is no degree requiring job for that person.

misskool

Kohoutek wrote: »

One very important way of comparing universities is by the quality of research they conducts. The Russell Group is a collective name for a group of universities that receive two thirds of all research funding in the UK. Basically, if you're got a 2:1 or better from one of these unis, you've got a good chance of securing a top job in your chosen profession.

University of Birmingham
University of Bristol
University of Cambridge
Cardiff University
University of Edinburgh
University of Glasgow
Imperial College London
King's College London, (University of London)
University College London, (University of London)
University of Leeds
University of Liverpool
London School of Economics, (University of London)
University of Manchester
Newcastle University
University of Nottingham
Queen's University Belfast
University of Oxford
University of Sheffield
University of Southampton
University of Warwick

2:1 from one, phd from another and working at another.

I don't even make 30k

I think I'm missing something here....:p

MissMoneypenny

misskool wrote: »

2:1 from one, phd from another and working at another.

I don't even make 30k

I think I'm missing something here....:p

My son went to one of that list, got a 2:1 and started on 44K straight out of uni;)