University degree not worth as much as touted

bendix

StevieJ wrote: »

Presumably the Oxbridge of sports science would be somewhere like Loughborough ?

And here's the rub, isnt it?

Sports science is NOT the stuff of degrees. Nor is media studies, peace studies or any of that !!!!!!!!.

As others have said, there are too many idiot students gaining too many dumbed down A Levels, thus earning the right to study in too many bogus and idiotic degrees.

Evidently this is progress. Progress my a**e.

lostinrates

Kohoutek wrote: »

Private schools are machines that churn out people with 10 A*s at GCSE, 4 As at A-Level etc in exchange for a lot of cash. Success at GCSEs and A-Level, and therefore university admission, is largely knowing what hoops to jump through..

Not really, not now because of quotas. My eldest niece got 10A stars in her mocks...and is not being given the opportunity to apply for oxbridge, as her private school talks about quotas and limits. My niece would like a career in academia, and though not an outstanding genius is, and always had been an extremely hard worker showing much dedication to her schoolwork (more than any precedent set for her in our family). If the school knew how to push students through hoops it is a reasonable presumption she'd be in with a good chance. I think academically. frankly, she'd do better than she would at interview.

lostinrates

bendix wrote: »

And here's the rub, isnt it?

Sports science is NOT the stuff of degrees. Nor is media studies, peace studies or any of that !!!!!!!!.

As others have said, there are too many idiot students gaining too many dumbed down A Levels, thus earning the right to study in too many bogus and idiotic degrees.

Evidently this is progress. Progress my a**e.

I don't know what is in the curriculum for a sort science degree....at the top end it could certainly be degree level science. The issue is, are their jobs for all the grads, and does it add value to the country to support all undergrads reading the subject. I simply don't know the answer to those questions I pose!

Really2

Kohoutek wrote: »

The only thing 'comprehensive' about the state system is that it's a comprehensive failure to give opportunities to bright people who come from modest social backgrounds.
Intelligence or suitability for university is virtually irrelevant in our current system, it depends almost entirely on social background and wealth.

I posted this yesterday.

Really2 wrote: »

Some of the cleverest sharpest people are usually some of the lowest academic achievers as they are constantly waiting for others to catch up.
This then leads to them being seen as disruptive and the cycle then begins. Perhaps a more mixed system would highlight these and pull them forward instead of pushing them back.

I was told to stop answering questions at primary school to give other children the chance.:( (amazing how things stick in your mind at that age)

If that happens with my son I will send him private.
State schools drag down the best to drag up the worst. (well they did in my day)
Teacher usually fail to spot why some sit there or are can be disruptive, in a few it is because the child has done what they have asked and understands and is waiting for everyone else. But are usually put down as uninterested.

I lost count the amount of times I was told I was cheating when completing 2.5H exams in just over 30 mins.
Not a great encouragement I must admit.

Kohoutek

lostinrates wrote: »

Not really, not now because of quotas. My eldest niece got 10A stars in her mocks...and is not being given the opportunity to apply for oxbridge, as her private school talks about quotas and limits. My niece would like a career in academia, and though not an outstanding genius is, and always had been an extremely hard worker showing much dedication to her schoolwork (more than any precedent set for her in our family). If the school knew how to push students through hoops it is a reasonable presumption she'd be in with a good chance. I think academically. frankly, she'd do better than she would at interview.

A decision whether to apply to Oxbridge or not is ultimately the pupil's decision if they care about their own destiny. A little under 50% of Oxford and Cambridge's intake is from private schools, despite the fact that only 7% of British schoolchildren attend private schools.

To argue that a private education is a hindrance to getting to a top university is ludicrous, it's patently the opposite. The state system fails an incalculable number of bright people by preventing them achieve their potential, the private school system gives you a massive step up in terms of smaller classes, better teachers, better materials, more focused learning, better preparation for university interviews. Otherwise what's the point in paying all that money?

To be blunt, if your niece is good enough and would sparkle at interview, then Oxford or Cambridge is likely to offer her a place. If your niece thinks she would do well at one of those universities, then she should apply.

lostinrates

Kohoutek wrote: »

A decision whether to apply to Oxbridge or not is ultimately the pupil's decision if they care about their own destiny. A little under 50% of Oxford and Cambridge's intake is from private schools, despite the fact that only 7% of British schoolchildren attend private schools.

To argue that a private education is a hindrance to getting to a top university is ludicrous, it's patently the opposite. The state system fails an incalculable number of bright people by preventing them achieve their potential, the private school system gives you a massive step up in terms of smaller classes, better teachers, better materials, more focused learning, better preparation for university interviews. Otherwise what's the point in paying all that money?

To be blunt, if your niece is good enough and would sparkle at interview, then Oxford or Cambridge is likely to offer her a place. If your niece thinks she would do well at one of those universities, then she should apply.

I think I made it clear, interview is where she would be let down, IMO, at this stage in her life. She is academically a hardworking, high achieving, average...her grades are because she has aptitude for work and study...more so than skills which would shine on interview.

She of course can apply independently via UCAS, but would do so without the schools endorsement or support...so no hoop jumping help from there!

re the ''whats the money for''...I'm simply not going there today, but understand and appreciate your sentiment. I think it boild down to the same discussion as what is a degree worth if not boosting your income...some hold worth in it, others don't, I'm not sure either is right or wrong ..:)

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

I was told to stop answering questions at primary school to give other children the chance.:( (amazing how things stick in your mind at that age)

If that happens with my son I will send him private.
State schools drag down the best to drag up the worst. (well they did in my day)
Teacher usually fail to spot why some sit there or are can be disruptive, in a few it is because the child has done what they have asked and understands and is waiting for everyone else. But are usually put down as uninterested.

I lost count the amount of times I was told I was cheating when completing 2.5H exams in just over 30 mins.
Not a great encouragement I must admit.

Really, all of that is very, very disappointing. Do you think your life would have panned out differently with other eduction, or do you think its part of what made you the person you obviously have self worth about?

FCRangers

Got a 1st class BSC Computing(Database Systems) from UCLAN in Preston(bottom half i think in the ratings) ended up about 10k in debt, but prob the best three 3 years of my life. Also walked into a job and earning above average money in a job I love.

Kohoutek

lostinrates wrote: »

I think I made it clear, interview is where she would be let down, IMO, at this stage in her life. She is academically a hardworking, high achieving, average...her grades are because she has aptitude for work and study...more so than skills which would shine on interview.

That's the problem with Oxbridge I'm afraid. There are plenty of other excellent universities without such a quirky admissions system. It's not the end of the world to be non-Oxbridge, even for a budding academic.

lostinrates wrote: »

She of course can apply independently via UCAS, but would do so without the schools endorsement or support...so no hoop jumping help from there!

At my sixth form, the only way to apply was to make your own decision, and then fill out the UCAS form by yourself. The school didn't offer to do it for you. That's ample evidence of an enormous gap between the state and private sector in terms of university preparation.

lostinrates wrote: »

re the ''whats the money for''...I'm simply not going there today, but understand and appreciate your sentiment. I think it boild down to the same discussion as what is a degree worth if not boosting your income...some hold worth in it, others don't, I'm not sure either is right or wrong ..:)

Sure, I think most parents would send their children to the private sector if they could afford it, but the children of rich people aren't necessarily the most intelligent people. The problems with the state system distort our universities and job market to make it look like privately educated children are the most intelligent and able, but although many are intelligent, in general they are just the best prepared.

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

Really, all of that is very, very disappointing. Do you think your life would have panned out differently with other eduction, or do you think its part of what made you the person you obviously have self worth about?

I may have attained more academically if i was aloud to develop at the speed I wanted/needed. One of the reasons I stopped A levels as I really did not find them any more in depth than GCSE's and felt it was just going over stuff I knew to keep others going.
But I left with 9 GCSE's C and above what 15-16 years ago.:o

I really do not feel education has ever held back my earning potential if you know things you know them.
The problem is with the piece of paper it tells people you did something not that you retained the info

Part of my fast learning it to do with the problem I have, the worrying thing for me I now see it in my son. (He has from the age of 2 been able to recite story's word for word which I have read to him. He is currently in pre school at just over 2.5 just so he can get the stimulation he needs)

I must admit I will encorage my son as at least I have experience, but it is a bit of a worry.

My favorite school ditty was in chemistry and my report said "His exam results will show the little effort he put in", that would be the highest grade in the class then.