Feed In Tariffs(FIT) Announced.

noncom_2

Re: the last two replies:

1) The rate as I understand it is 3p/kWh. I'm not talking about using electricity for no reason - I'm talking about finding ways of powering things during the day which I would otherwise have to power at some time. So I'm not "wasting" 3p per unit that I could be paid by the Grid for exporting, I'd be using it during the day at a cost to myself of 3p rather than paying much more for the same task in the evening (whether it be electricity or gas I was replacing for the task).

2) I don't have Economy 7 - I don't think our usage profile would make it worthwhile (about the only high power activities we'd sensibly do during the night would be washing machine and tumble dryer, which I could easily set to go during the sunshine hours instead).

Of the list you name, water heating and showers in the house are gas-heated, washing machine and dryer are electric (tumble dryer has packed up and will shortly be replaced by an A-rated version), and I can't see how you could use timeclocks on a fridge or freezer safely. The freezer will be kept in the garage probably to make it easier to keep cold.

I've borrowed an OWL meter from a friend at the moment, and am currently ammoying my wife by telling her exactly how much per hour it costs to leave the lights on, boil too much water etc!!!

I saw the EMMA device earlier in the thread, but the only hint at a cost I could find on the web seems to be about £900 for the single phase version I'd need. I haven't calculated yet how likely it would be to pay for itself if, for example, I used it to run the immersion on the hot water tank during the day. I may give them a ring soon.

As far as your last point goes, yes, I understand well the financial and ethical complexities of this scheme. I agree it's ethically ambiguous - potentially a big rise in clean green electricity, more "individual ownership" of the solutions to carbon reduction, but as you say subsidised heavily by all consumers, and disproportionately by poorer people who could not possibly afford the upfront cost.

I think it will be down to individuals how they use this "bribe". For me, it will be part of a general overhaul of our carbon footprint awareness as we move into our new house (looking at more energy efficient lighting etc as well), and I can use some of the "profit" generated from the PV investment to fund switching our electricity and gas supplies to more green, more ethical, more costly providers.

Andy

John_Pierpoint

It will be down to individuals how they use this "bribe". For me, it will be part of a general overhaul of our carbon footprint.

Me too - let us all know how you get on.

I've borrowed an OWL meter from a friend at the moment, and am currently annoying my wife by telling her exactly how much per hour it costs to leave the lights on, boil too much water etc!!!

My son has an OWL, but I don't think I dare borrow it as I will get much the same response.
(I tried sneaking in and pouring the unused water in the kettle into a vacuum flask, mainly to make a point rather than save energy - that little pantomime was not appreciated.:D)

John.

PS You do realise that as things stand, when there is a power cut, the whole thing shuts down? So its gas heating off as usual.

Presumably this means that you cannot switch off the mains to change a fuse, without having to power back up both systems.

I'm not sure if this is because trying to suck more juice out of the roof, than it can provide, would damage the PV system, damage your electrical stuff (which it would if the application was more sophisticated than something like an immersion heater) or because the average punter groping about in the meter cupboard with "brown out" lighting would forget the potential electric shock from the roof.

Any sparks going to explain all?

noncom_2

No, I hadn't considered the power cut scenario. I don't see that it makes that much difference tbh, but I'd be interested to hear the reason why it is so.

Brian99_2

Thanks guys, for this thread being the most enlightening one I've seen :)

Mcfi5dhc

As far as I know, the kill switches on my PV are more there for the grid engineers. If they need to do work on the power lines, they could in theory get a shock from your PV/turbine - for this reason, you must power off any generating equipment in the event of a power cut. This is very rare though.

To change a fuse, power off the consumer unit in the same standard way as you would normally do, remove fuse/breaker, fix, replace, turn on consumer unit.

If you did need to power off the PV, its not the hardest job in the world - two breakers (one in the loft, one by the consumer unit) - turn off in the right order, turn back on in the right order.

When you install PV, you get (well I did anyway) a huge booklet full of useful info - mine is about 30 pages A4 - this is discussed in there.

PS I have an OWL. We use it more to ensure nothing has been left on that shouldn't have been. We already do the standard stuff (like full washing machine loads, boil what you need etc)

zeupater

Hi All

Just a quick question ....

I've been looking at fitting a PV system for a while ... but the costs for installations in the UK haven't stacked up so I've delayed .... FITs obviously make a difference.

I generally understand FITs but can't readily find how the exported generation capacity is calculated .... I know that there is basically a low payment of a few pence per KW of exported generation and guess that this must be netted against imported power from the grid but haven't been able to find a descriptive source ... can anyone clarify what the netting period is or provide a link to a relevant site ....

Cheers ....
Z

rhiwfield

Z, just had a system installed and still waiting for Eon to provide the full details but I'll be getting 41.3p per kWh generated as evidenced by my generation meter. I'll be expected to provied them with 6 monthly readings.

The feed connects into the household supply so we use anything generated first, this saves us about 9p per kWh used.

Anything not used by us goes to the grid and we will be paid 3p per kWh. We dont have an export meter and Eon and I have agreed to deem that 50% is exported. In due course if I am required to have an export meter then we will no doubt use meter readings instead

John_Pierpoint

Lifted off the interweb to protect the guilty


Give me an example
This is a feed-in tariff example for a 2.16kWp installation of 12 panels:

Annual UK family household electricity bill (5,000kWh@0.14p) - £700
Cost of 2.16kWp system incl 5% VAT - £11,125.80
Electricity savings from system output (assuming 75% used in house)
if used in house - £200
Feed-in tariff on all generated electricity est 1913kWh @41.3p - £790
Electricity exported back to the National Grid (assuming 25%) @5p - £24
Total saving plus income/annum - £1014
Return on Investment - 9%
Payback Time - 11yrs

Observations:
0.14 might be a high price (even when including the VAT) for purchasing grid units.
2.16kW panels costing 11,125.80 sounds a bit small and expensive given a suitable south facing 30 degree roof slope. Stick some more panels up while you are at it! 25% exported back seems a bit low but my understanding is that the payment is only 0.03GBP for exported units.
Until your electricity region gets round to fitting smart meters the slightly higher voltage generated by the panels may
1. make your meter go backwards and/or
2. be assumed to be exporting half the electricity the panels are producing.
If you buy (say) an inflation proof gilt edged bond. When your investment matures you get your capital back as well as having enjoyed some interest in the mean time.
You might have to pay to have your capital (panels) stripped from your roof in 25 years time.
BEWARE of the so called Return on Investment. It has to be good enough to buy a new set of panels ad infinitum

But it is tax free:D

zeupater

Hi

Thanks for replies ..... from the posts I take it the if there is no export meter fitted there is a standard 'assumption' that 50% of generated power is exported, or does this have to be agreed for each installation ?

I suppose that having a standard meter which would 'run backwards' when exporting would have made more sense from the netting point of view, but this would effectively mean that the supplier would be paying the same value per unit consumed as they were charging ..... is this a correct assumption ??? (if so I can understand why export meters are preferred by the suppliers )

Cheers ....

John_Pierpoint

Your supplier has to pay you 0.413 for every unit your panels produce.
He then has to pay another 0.03 for every unit that goes backwards through the meter.
As he probably cannot be bothered to put smart meters in just for you, until he gets aroundtuit he pays out on the assumption that 50% of your production is being exported.

If your meter is also going backwards; I don't know what happens but it looks like every exported unit is worth (say) another 0.12.
A powerful incentive to change your meter;)

Let us all know how it pans out for you.