Issues with returning Bond

miggiwoo

Have just given up the tenancy on a rented property having spent 16 months there with my wife and 2 kids( before finding our new place to buy) and have just had a letter fron the Lettings Agency regarding the " cleanliness" of the property.
Must admit was expecting a problem getting our £500 bond back , but am a little took back at the terms on their letter to us.
Basically the property couldnt sell so was put up for rent.we moved in October 2008 and it was unfurnished.It had lining wallpaper painted magnolia , cheap nylon beige carpets and other issues relating to the poor ventilation in the bathroom , lack of thermostatic control on most of the radiators , no bannister on the stairs amongst others.After numerous calls to the letting agency for the owners "handy-man" to come out and sort out the problems , I ended up doing as much fixing as he did.
Our youngest Daughter had 7 hospital admissions with recurrent chest infections which, although not directly , couldnt`have been helped by the dampness and lack of a decent radiator in the bathroom.
The letter states the need for cleaning of all carpets , the lounge wall is
"very" scuffed and the decorations in the bathroom are in poor condition ( although it was me who bought anti-mould materials and repainted it and caught the mirror that fell off the wall 2 weeks into our tenancy due to condensation).
It is a 3 bedroomed house that was marketed as a family home with fairly basic furnishing/decoration.
My question is how much wear and tear should be expected in 16 months of renting a family home ?
My interpretaion of the letter states that it should be in pristine condition .

BitterAndTwisted

Did you sign a detailed inventory describing the condition of the property and its fitting at the start of the tenancy?

Fire_Fox

Sorry to read about your daughter. If the damp is due to condensation it is the tenants responsibility to manually ventilate or use a dehumidifier: adequate heating does not get rid if the water, it holds it in the air (up to a point). Scuffs are not wear and tear they are accidental damage. Did you put any of your other complaints into writing? Was there a dual signed check-in inventory that details the condition of the place? Were you given the opportunity to attend checkout?

miggiwoo

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Sorry to read about your daughter. If the damp is due to condensation it is the tenants responsibility to manually ventilate or use a dehumidifier: adequate heating does not get rid if the water, it holds it in the air (up to a point). Scuffs are not wear and tear they are accidental damage. Did you put any of your other complaints into writing? Was there a dual signed check-in inventory that details the condition of the place? Were you given the opportunity to attend checkout?

Do not remember signing an inventory , remember being told that there was marking on our bedroom carpet before we moved in.We had 2 inspection during the 16 months , with the second being 3 months ago.The guy carrying the inspection out didnt mention any problems but said wear and tear were acceptable.
We are 2 proffesional people who are meticulous in cleaning and making sure everything is in its place ( as our 2 children will testify !) and find the reference to cleanliness quite baffling.
The thing is my wife took the time out to show 2 families round weeks ago , to help out the lettings agency , and the family we believe are taking the tenancy did not look the most houseproud of families.

Fire_Fox

miggiwoo wrote: »

Do not remember signing an inventory , remember being told that there was marking on our bedroom carpet before we moved in.We had 2 inspection during the 16 months , with the second being 3 months ago.The guy carrying the inspection out didnt mention any problems but said wear and tear were acceptable.
We are 2 proffesional people who are meticulous in cleaning and making sure everything is in its place ( as our 2 children will testify !) and find the reference to cleanliness quite baffling.
The thing is my wife took the time out to show 2 families round weeks ago , to help out the lettings agency , and the family we believe are taking the tenancy did not look the most houseproud of families.

As previously stated, scuffs are NOT wear and tear they are dirt/ accidental damage and are often removable with sugar soap. Letting agents are not supposed to mention cleanliness during a routine inspection, this is to ensure there are no maintenance issues with the property and perhaps to check you aren't running a brothel or a weed farm.

You have not answered two of my earlier questions "Did you put any of your other complaints into writing? Were you given the opportunity to attend checkout?" The potential absence of a dual signed inventory weighs heavily in your favour, write to the letting agent/ landlord and ask for a copy immediately. It's completely irrelevant that you showed the new tenants around, and completely irrelevant what their standards are.

BitterAndTwisted

If you don't remember signing an inventory does that mean there was not one? In the first instance I suggest you ask the letting agent for sight of it.

Allegedly dirty carpeting: did you clean the carpets before you left the property?

As Fire Fox observed scuff marks on walls are not considered fair wear and tear and should have been removed before exiting the property. Did you attempt to do this?

miggiwoo

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

If you don't remember signing an inventory does that mean there was not one? In the first instance I suggest you ask the letting agent for sight of it.

Allegedly dirty carpeting: did you clean the carpets before you left the property?

As Fire Fox observed scuff marks on walls are not considered fair wear and tear and should have been removed before exiting the property. Did you attempt to do this?

My wife has confirmed there was an inventory taken , so will ask for a copy of it.I did not clean the carpets before we left as I , personally , thought they were ok.I spent 3 evenings in the week we moved out painting the lounge/kitchen and mouldy bathroom.
I hoovered every inch of the carpets and thought they looked ok.

BitterAndTwisted

Thinking they look OK is a world away from them being in the same state of cleanliness as when you took on the property. Landlords should allow for wear and tear but this does not include dirt. How long you spent getting the property ship-shape is not relevant as this is entirely dependent on you and your family's lifestyles and standards of housekeeping, obviously.

Once you have sight of the check-in inventory you should compare that to the check-out one. Then you should have a sensible basis upon which to negotiate.

miggiwoo

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Thinking they look OK is a world away from them being in the same state of cleanliness as when you took on the property. Landlords should allow for wear and tear but this does not include dirt. How long you spent getting the property ship-shape is not relevant as this is entirely dependent on you and your family's lifestyles and standards of housekeeping, obviously.

Once you have sight of the check-in inventory you should compare that to the check-out one. Then you should have a sensible basis upon which to negotiate.

Inventory from October 08 does state some marking on certain carpets , but final inspection report states "heavily stained" ( which i think is simply not true)
Took a week to get final inspection report to be faxed to us , LA not responding to us at all from all of the emails sent and re-sent to them.
Mentioned various parts of the contract that they , as a Company are not adhering to , and the assistant simply said " I dont think that we are using that anymore" (priceless !) and to speak to ************* (the named owner of the company)
They havent even got the courtesy to respond to our communications , so after work this afternoon , I intend to pop in and find out how much we can expect to receive out of our £495 bond and exactly when we will receive it ( could always wait while they fill out a cheque !)

BitterAndTwisted

If you didn't shampoo the carpets it is entirely possible that a subjective view might find they are "heavily stained".

In your position I would wait until the agents come up with a price for getting the place back to its original condition at the start of the tenancy. Until you know what deductions they are planning to make, if any, you have no basis upon which to contest them. Showing up at the LA's offices could be construed as, ahem, a tad premature and aggressive so please do not be too hasty

The delays in getting in touch with you could be entirely due to the LA not getting a speedy reply back from the landlord who will be the party responsible for pricing and getting any quotes for whatever they plan to do.

miggiwoo

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

If you didn't shampoo the carpets it is entirely possible that a subjective view might find they are "heavily stained".

In your position I would wait until the agents come up with a price for getting the place back to its original condition at the start of the tenancy. Until you know what deductions they are planning to make, if any, you have no basis upon which to contest them. Showing up at the LA's offices could be construed as, ahem, a tad premature and aggressive so please do not be too hasty

The delays in getting in touch with you could be entirely due to the LA not getting a speedy reply back from the landlord who will be the party responsible for pricing and getting any quotes for whatever they plan to do.

thanks , dont intend to get irate or raise my voice .Will be civil and just ask them to confirm payment/amount etc
New tenants moved in last Friday (29-01-2010) and I saw a carpet cleaning firm 2 days before this.I also have had a copy of the EA request to a handyman (obviously used by the EA) saying " clean carpets on stairs and beds. 1 and 3.Clean oven and general kitchen clean .
Intend to remind them of a clause in our contract (if they are still "using it") that states payment to be within 28 days of end of tenancy.
I am the most polite person in the world and have been more than fair so only expect to be treated in the same way.
Everybody told me theres always problems when it comes to returning money owed to you.
Although my wife has just sent me a text reminding me of Michael Douglas in "Falling Down "