Average civil servant earns less than a private sector worker

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How people survive on such meagre allowances is mind boggling.

The_White_Horse

every solitary public sector worker should have their pensuion stopped and receive a 25% pay cut immediately.

Davesnave

The_White_Horse wrote: »

every solitary public sector worker should have their pensuion stopped and receive a 25% pay cut immediately.

OK, that's it. I'm outing White Horse......



*Credit to GeneHunt

princeofpounds

Am I really gunna be that rich????

Well yes actually. To be honest, the annuity rates might have changed by that point so the details might not match exactly (and the amount will probably be lower), but think about it - you will get an income for life without having to do anything. That has to be paid for somehow, it doesn't come from nowhere.

However, in most cases, the truth is a little less dramatic; most of us simply went to work and tried hard to do a good job. We then came home and made sure the mortgage was paid.

Ah, but that's boring, isn't it?

Well it is a little boring I suppose. But it is also true, I'm not quite the boomer-basher that sentence might imply.

I wouldn't believe for a second that any one individual is to blame (except perhaps for some senior politicians and civil servants whose job should have been to remedy the problem). But there is a collective responsibility here.

And whether you believe there should be any blame here or not, it still doesn't change the facts of the problem. Those are very real (if back of envelope) numbers. 10% tax burden for 20 years must become an emotive issue at some point.

Is the rest of your post as rubbish as this?

My parents both paid 6% of their salary into their public sector pensions all their working lives, one in the NHS, then Social Services at the County Council and the other for a number of Borough and District Councils.

Rubbish? No. Here is the magic of the NHS pension fund... you think that money was invested for your parents? No, it was not. The NHS pension fund, like many government funds, is not a normal pension fund.

It was used to pay out the current pensioners. All that money they saved bought nothing more than a treastury guarantee to use future pension payments and tax receipts if necessary to cover the deficit. It's actually got quite a few similarities to pyramid schemes, although not the lethal exponential growth thankfully!

(Note a description here from a trade magazine that explains the situation quite nicely)
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=4006052&sectioncode=25

The councils are a little better. They do at least have some real funds in existence. The deficit is about £60bn most likely, although the full actuarial reports post-crash are yet to be published.

Seriously, it might sound like I'm attacking your hard-working parents, but once you actually understand a little actuarial maths and read into these arrangements it's a really shocking situation. Journalists don't call it the public sector pension timebomb just because it sounds snappy, there really really is a problem here.

As I understand it, most public sector pension schemes have quite high (and rising) contribution rates. I also understand that most, if not all, are self-funding schemes - i.e. paid for by current members, rather than somehow "gifted" by Joe Public.

They certainly have rising contribution rates. Whether they are high or not is a relative question - they are not high relative to the benefits paid, although they may seem like a lot of money to the contributor. The reason the rates are rising is precisely because they have historically been far too low.

Many are self-funded schemes in title. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that they have actually been funded sufficiently for the liabilities they have. This is precisely what Watson Wyatt have calculated when using the methods companies are forced to use for pension accounting rather than the slightly ficticious government methods.

Old_Slaphead

Basil_Hume wrote: »

As I understand it, most public sector pension schemes have quite high (and rising) contribution rates. I also understand that most, if not all, are self-funding schemes - i.e. paid for by current members, rather than somehow "gifted" by Joe Public.

Your understanding is incorrect.

The majority of public sector employees contribution rates are around 6-7% before tax relief.
The majority of public schemes are not 'self funded'.
The minority (mainly Local Authority) are funded - the vast majority of the funding (approx 70%) comes from the taxpayer/council tax payer. Currently these schemes have a significant 'black hole' ie funding shortfall.
Government spin on the affordability of public sector pensions is only for the here and now. The liabilities accumulating are enormous and will be a significant issue for future generations - many of whom will be expected to pay for, but not benefit from, this largess.

mrstinchcombe

If public sectors that good then get a job in the public sector, don't whinge all the bloody time.

lemonjelly

Great thread Thrugelmir!

One thing I'd add - anyone who bases their decision of their career solely on how much they're paid, & how much their pension is, is extremely narrow minded & will miss out on so much!

You spend 35,40+ years of your life at work, 45-48 weeks of the year, 5/6/7 days a week. If you're putting yourself through that just for a paypacket & pension, you're too blinkered.

When I decided on a career, I felt that I needed to get more than a paypacket out of it to justify the amount of time I'm engaged in it.

Old_Slaphead

mrstinchcombe wrote: »

If public sectors that good then get a job in the public sector, don't whinge all the bloody time.

Where's the whinge? Simply stating facts and correcting a misunderstanding by another poster.

Interesting article in last week's Sunday Times Review section about 'baby boomers' having it all (pensions, property, free further education etc) and leaving the bills for their kids

mrstinchcombe

lemonjelly wrote: »

One thing I'd add - anyone who bases their decision of their career solely on how much they're paid, & how much their pension is, is extremely narrow minded & will miss out on so much!

I agree. But posters seem more concerned on how much others are paid, how much other peoples pensions are. Its sad

princeofpounds

If public sectors that good then get a job in the public sector, don't whinge all the bloody time.

Sigh. Did you ever stop to think that the concern being expressed over public sector pensions might be, in some small way, actually altruistic and not motivated by self-interest?

I can't speak for Old Slaphead, but I have a good enough career that I can aspire to provide for myself on a private basis at those kind of levels and I am mobile enough that I could easily enough head to another country to practice and avoid tax repercussions. I'm not trying to big myself up, I am trying to demonstrate that it is plain speaking when I say that the concern isn't for me, it's for all the normal working people of the next thirty years.