Average civil servant earns less than a private sector worker

donaldtramp

Because of course you have cast iron proof that these problems are down to the project managers and that it isn't the case that they are preventing the problems you mention from being 5 times worse than they actually are?

Well it is'nt the taxpayers that are cocking up, we're just picking up the tab and paying everyones wages.

I'm trying to decide if you're really so ill-informed as to actually believe the tripe you say or if you're trying to be offensive on purpose.

How do you explain a £27 BILLION waste? The Independant thought it important enough to put on their front page. Obviously, people are disgusted with it and for good reason.
My point is that a great deal of this bloated state and it's IT tentacles are NOT required in the first place.

donaldtramp

marklv wrote: »

Wrong - they are! Otherwise where does private sector money come from? It comes from customers, i.e. consumers, i.e. the general public!!

The difference is that if the private sector provides a crap service they go out of business. They have REAL customers and consumers.

In th e public sector there just seems to be a never ending supply of our cash regardless of service provided or results.

And that's a huge difference.

RobertoMoir

donaldtramp wrote: »

Well it is'nt the taxpayers that are cocking up, we're just picking up the tab and paying everyones wages.

Well. Yes. You do realise that civil servants still pay tax (and therefore their own wages) by the way? Deft avoidance of the actual question I asked you by the way. But then where's the fun in talking rationally about things when you can just stir it up eh?

donaldtramp wrote: »

How do you explain a £27 BILLION waste? The Independant thought it important enough to put on their front page. Obviously, people are disgusted with it and for good reason.
My point is that a great deal of this bloated state and it's IT tentacles are NOT required in the first place.

You should probably take that up with your MP. The IT project manager's lot is not to question whether or not some pork-barrel privacy invading database should be built, its to try and make the best of it anyway

donaldtramp

Because of course you have cast iron proof that these problems are down to the project managers and that it isn't the case that they are preventing the problems you mention from being 5 times worse than they actually are?

To answer your question, of course I'm not saying that all of the problems are down to the project managers. I never have and have no idea where you picked that up from. You're twisting what I've said. I 'm sure they are trying to do their best. But the fact is there are MASSIVE overruns in cash. Who is running the projects? Project managers perhaps?
My main point is that we don't need to employ all these people in the first place.
It is a massive waste of money and the government is mainly to blame.

You do realise that civil servants still pay tax (and therefore their own wages) by the way?

Yes I do but they bring nothing in to the country in terms of wealth. Do you understand that if we all worked for the state (it's getting that way now) there would be nothing to pay Britains way in the world? Let's all work for the state and watch our currency and wealth collapse.

Arch-Angel

donaldtramp wrote: »

Yes I do but they bring nothing in to the country in terms of wealth. Do you understand that if we all worked for the state (it's getting that way now) there would be nothing to pay Britains way in the world? Let's all work for the state and watch our currency and wealth collapse.

...and if we all worked for the private sector then we would have a privatised health service, private police forces and privatised social services.

Nobody would be delivering essential public services like refuse collection, social services, policing and all the other things that are done for us. We would have to contract into private security firms, who would look to maximise their profit margin - so no policing in low-poverty areas where policing is needed. There's loads of examples where a private-only service could backfire rather badly.

Oh, and whilst I'm thinking about it....the top managers in the Civil Service are on bonuses that make up over 10% of their salary. "OMG - that's outrageous!!!" - but that's their salary increase over the last 5-10 years. It's non-pensionable (by design as it saves money). Now those same civil servants are targets because of the bonus culture....

We pumped £200 billion into the banking industry (private industry), they are still not lending and they are paying out large bonuses. But sure - let's go after the civil servants as it's a soft target....! :eek:

Kohoutek

The level of overemployment and absurdly generous pension schemes in the public sector was unsustainable regardless of the recession. Just look at this typical example for a 49 year old retired policeman:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2225529

Could private sector companies afford to give this kind of pension scheme to all their employees after 30 years service? In the public sector, pension provision is basically a Ponzi scheme that the taxpayer is forced to pay into. It's not sustainable, and we would save some pain in the future to start making dramatic cuts now.