Rail fare fine - £3 to over £400 - any help?

ajdyer

He added up all the charges and said that the likely figure would be around £400

Hintza

ajdyer wrote: »

But he said I have to pay it by the court date and there is no way I can get the money.

You can afford stag weekends in Lisbon and you say you have earned your bonus. But can't afford the £280 fine.

I think you are just being stubborn which is is your perogative to do but I suspect that this can only get worse and a criminal record on top.

Your choice really.

newfoundglory

ajdyer wrote: »

He added up all the charges and said that the likely figure would be around £400

Hmm... magistrates courts are very hit and miss. A good solicitor would likely reduce that significantly though clever mitigation.

I would suggest you make them an offer to not take you to court. Start at £100 and go from there. As it starts going up, suggest that you might have no alternative to defend yourself in court and that it might be a very expensive and lengthly process for all involved with several witnesses and court appearances involved. Mention that you will have to claim all your costs incurred in defending yourself from them if they lose or later withdraw the case.

Hintza

newfoundglory wrote: »

A good solicitor would likely reduce that significantly though clever mitigation.

How much will the solicitor cost?

newfoundglory

Hintza wrote: »

How much will the solicitor cost?

Exactly. But remember that in most of these cases the prosecution expect people to turn up and just look complete fools in court. It becomes much harder and expensive for them when they cant turn the cases around quickly or when they drag on.

Best to seek at least a proper legal opinion on the matter I would think

gordikin

Hintza wrote: »

How much will the solicitor cost?

Less than a good solicitor!:D

Mids_Costcutter

For those who may be interested, the Department for Transport are currently consulting on penalty fares' rules:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/nationalrailpenaltyfares/

The change proposal is that in future the penalty fare charge will be £50, or twice the full single fare to the next station at which the train calls, whichever is the greater, but that this will be reduced to £25, or the full single fare to the next station at which the train calls whichever is greater, if paid in full within 21 days.

The change has been requested in order to reduce the number of unpaid Penalty Fare Notices and to encourage immediate or early settlement of payments due.

Will the changes achieve that aim? As the DfT point out even when only a small percentage of passengers travel without paying, the losses for train operating companies can be significant when earnings from the sale of tickets were over £6 billion in 2008. So this could save us all money?

At the moment the following train companies have a penalty fares scheme approved on all or part of their network:

Southeastern
Southern
South West Trains
First Capital Connect
First Great Western
c2c
London Midland
Merseyrail Electrics
Nexus, the Tyne & Wear Metro
Chiltern Railways

National Express East Anglia

pompeyrich

newfoundglory wrote: »

Failing to show a valid ticket is a more complex. The fact you didn't have one makes you guilty whether or not you intended to do so. Generally, train operating companies are not likely to make much money from you in court - yes you might be convicted but the "fine" you get from the court will likely be less than £400. They usually use the cheapest and least resourceful legal counsel when prosecuting cases.

The TOC wont get any of the fine money anyway, so it doesn't matter if the fine is £1 or £1,000 the fine money goes to the Government

Look at it like this... most prosecution cases are probably in and out of the magistrates court in 10 minutes flat. If i was to take a risk defending myself in a case of strict liability like this, I would make things as lengthly and expensive for the train company as possible.

I would call several witnesses and debate various points of law or case law in open court. Look for procedural irregularities. This makes things lengthy, might result in several court hearings and makes it much more expensive for the prosecutor to the point that it may not be worthwhile. They would hopefully not decide to proceed with the case any further. It might end up costing them several thousand in really money, but your fine from the court might only be a few hundred. Thus, its a complete waste of time and money for them.

IF they chose not to drop the case and the case was proved, then they would be able to claim their costs and it could end up costing the defendant £000s a risky strategy IMO.

The train company wont get any of the fine though so if its £1 or £1,000 the money goes to the Government

ajdyer

On a lighter note

I spoke to South West trains and they have agreed to reduce the fine by a considerable amount

I explained the situation to them and offered to settle things before we get to court

dzug1

Hintza wrote: »

How much will the solicitor cost?

£150 an hour maybe - more in London?