Rail fare fine - £3 to over £400 - any help?

ajdyer

glider3560 wrote: »

That aside, we'll see what can be done to assist you. You say a fine - can you clarify what you mean: a Penalty Fare, an Unpaid Fares Notice, or something else. How much was it for? Where was the train when you were "fined" or had you already alighted?

I was given a penalty fare notice

That was for £20 but it isn't mentioned in the bundle of court documents. They all make reference to the £3 charge from Wimbledon to Surbiton

glider3560

ajdyer wrote: »

I was given a fine on the spot, even though I tried to pay the fare and wanted to settle the matter there and then.

I think I lost that on the stag weekend to Lisbon that I was traveling to embark on. Whilst in Lisbon I was diagnosed with tonsillitis so the fine was hardly at the front of my mind.

I've been charged under Bye Law No.18 (1)

Edit: Ignore post as you've made a new one since I wrote this

glider3560

With a penalty fare, you get 21 days to appeal. Once the appeal is complete, if you are unsuccessful, you then get 14 days to pay.

It sounds like you didn't make the appeal in the correct way, otherwise the penalty would be put on hold until the appeal is decided.

Even if you had the intention of buying a ticket on the train, in my opinion it is unlikely that a court would believe this.

ajdyer

Thanks glider.

So I have little option, other than to write a pleading letter to South West trains. I asked the guy for leniency on the phone this morning and he was adamant that they wouldn't offer any reduction.

Could I contact the court and see if there's any way to lessen the fine?

I could face a £400 fine for a £3 ticket I didn't buy - gutting.

glider3560

Unfortunately Penalty Fares are made very clear before you board the train and you have had a very reasonable opportunity to pay the £20 penalty fare.

The penalty for 18(1) is a maximum of level 3 on the standard scale, which equates to £1,000. This means you could be fined anything up to £1,000. You could also be asked to pay court fees and various admin and other fees.

newfoundglory

I'm really confused by your post... you say £3, then £200 then £400. I'm confused.

What exactly are you being taken to court for?

Usually in these cases its one or two things:
- Prosecution for fare evasion (regulation of railways act 1889)
- Prosecution for failing to show a valid ticked on demand (which is part of the bylaws)

The latter is a strict liability offence. Its much harder to prove the former. Did you pay the inspector the remainder of you journey outside of zone 2? Have you paid any additional money at all? The reason I ask is it would be silly of them to try and prosecute for evasion if you have already paid to travel (ie you cant easily prove evasion if you have now paid for the journey in question). In many ways, since you already had a travelcard would make a fare evasion prosecution unlikely.

Failing to show a valid ticket is a more complex. The fact you didn't have one makes you guilty whether or not you intended to do so. Generally, train operating companies are not likely to make much money from you in court - yes you might be convicted but the "fine" you get from the court will likely be less than £400. They usually use the cheapest and least resourceful legal counsel when prosecuting cases.

Why? What you have to understand, is this is all about money.

If you make it financially worth while, they wont take you to court as they stand to make more than they would taking you to court. Hence some people will settle out of court. Both parties agree on an amount to not take things further. Train company demands x, and you pay x-amount asked or instead offer to pay a lesser amount y until you reach an agreement between you.

Look at it like this... most prosecution cases are probably in and out of the magistrates court in 10 minutes flat. If i was to take a risk defending myself in a case of strict liability like this, I would make things as lengthly and expensive for the train company as possible.

I would call several witnesses and debate various points of law or case law in open court. Look for procedural irregularities. This makes things lengthy, might result in several court hearings and makes it much more expensive for the prosecutor to the point that it may not be worthwhile. They would hopefully not decide to proceed with the case any further. It might end up costing them several thousand in really money, but your fine from the court might only be a few hundred. Thus, its a complete waste of time and money for them.

I make this sound simple, but it is not. I would suggest you seek proper legal advice, since i am not a lawyer.

KeithP

ajdyer wrote: »

Thanks glider.

So I have little option, other than to write a pleading letter to South West trains. I asked the guy for leniency on the phone this morning and he was adamant that they wouldn't offer any reduction.

Could I contact the court and see if there's any way to lessen the fine?

I could face a £400 fine for a £3 ticket I didn't buy - gutting.

You did say earlier...

...have been told that unless I pay £280 by the court date then they will go ahead for a full prosecution.

So it seems that £280, not £400, is the amount to pay.
Which is just what Hintza said earlier...

But you don't have to pay £400 its only £280

ajdyer

They mention £3 on their papers as the revenue involved. When I was given the fine it was for £20.

They mention Section 219 of the Transport Act that is confirmed by the Transport Act 2000. Not sure which two this falls under. I am charged with failing to present a valid rail ticket.

ajdyer

KeithP wrote: »

You did say earlier...So it seems that £280, not £400, is the amount to pay.
Which is just what Hintza said earlier...

But he said I have to pay it by the court date and there is no way I can get the money.

KeithP

ajdyer wrote: »

But he said I have to pay it by the court date and there is no way I can get the money.

Oh dear... that's a shame.

Anyway, where did that £400 figure come from? Surely it is up to the court to decide the punishment?