Unemployed 20 yr old son - a couple of questions :)

AnxiousMum

Thank you for your useful post Sh1305. It has been a bit of an eye opener to me that while he is certainly capable of working, and would be a great honest employee to someone, it has made me realise that there are certain things he could not do.
His sense of priority is way off - I have spoken with him this morning, told him of my conversation with local job centre, and he was to give them a call and set up an appointment and then call me back. He was eating 'brunch' at the time. I then got an email about an hour later stating 'I'll call you and the job centre in a bit - XXXX (girlfriend) is trying to print out a paper for uni and I need to run into town (five mins away) and get some printer ink. The printer is really loud, so want to be able to speak with them when printer not going......duh - that's the kind of thing about him that drives me up the wall - take the damned phone outside the back door if you have to to be able to speak to them without the printer going (it IS a small studio flat) - I am often seen out in my driveway on the phone chatting to friends while the little guys are playing on their Wii or horsing around inside the house.....grrrrrrrrrrr. He just doesn't think in that way

MissMoneypenny

AnxiousMum wrote: »

His choice in leaving uni was related to a diagnosis of dyspraxia, which he was able to cover up in high school by having learnt techniques to overcome it in that environment. Of course, in university without the constant guidance of a teacher (who wouldn't bring up the obvious dyspraxia he saw after five years of having him as a student, as the school 'couldn't afford the support') the dyspraxia became very apparent to all around him. It is said that a large percentage of dyslexia and dyspraxia cases are diagnosed in university due to the sudden change in learning environment.

I was told that my son had dyspraxia, but in fact I discovered that he had problems with his vision imaging. What his eyes saw and what his brain interpreted it as, were two different things. Trying to read a page of a book became exhausting as it took ages to get his eyes to focus on the first word of the line and when he came back to look at the next line on the page, all that effort to focus starts again. Yet my son had eye tests and they showed he had good vision, but they never test for how the brain interprets what the eye sees. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:NasUSEmEqnwJ:www.visionandlearning.co.uk/resources/Press%2BArticles.pdf+vison+imaging+keith+holland&hl=en&gl=uk&sig=AHIEtbQBTl_aDkCgJk80KXW6NM2Wd8qi8w

You can get your son tested to see if his problem is vision imaging and not dyspraxia. I was fortunate in that I found one of the good educational psychologists (went private as it would have taken too long to fight the local council for funding) and she told me about vision imaging and that the top person in the country was Keith Holland who is in Gloucester. The eye tests they do are non intrusive, I tried one myself.

Not sure what the test costs now, but perhaps you could phone them up and see if they think your son would benefit from testing? When my son went to Keith, Keith was also lecturing at Warwick (but I don’t think it was on vision imaging). As your son has been diagnosed as dyspraxia, your local council may fund any future visits if he does have vision imaging problems, but be prepared for a fight. The councils employ private firms to sort out equipment and backup and the firm our local council used, was a rip off and only interested in how much profit they could make from firms they recomeneded as they got a referal fee from them. Keith Holland didn't pay a referal fee to these firms.

I’m not sure what all the causes of vision imaging problems are, but again, Keith would be able to tell you this. My son had a squint when he was little and this is what had caused his vision imaging problem. His good eye had worked hard to control the squint and we were never told that he should have eye exercises, despite the fact we went private for his healthcare.

My son got his grades and went toWarwick too and loved it there. Warwick will support your son with any help he needs. My son now pays money to an old boys type club at Warwick and they use this money to help clever students who have parents who can't afford to help them, so not sure if this is relevant to you?

Good luck to your son and I hope you get this sorted. If you need anymore information just ask, or pm me if you would rather.

Edited to say that following the simple eye exercises that he did daily and special glasses for a while, my son is now an avid reader and can get through a paperback in a few hours.

[Deleted User]

AnxiousMum wrote: »

Thanks Woodbine and ONW (don't you wish we could call ourselves 'WiserNotOlder'?)

I do think he has left university - but was more concerned with the pension credit than actually getting any money each week. and also any training assistance, interview coaching etc. that might be available through being registered for JSA.

I wouldn't think he would get any money though - as living with his student girlfriend they take her student loan money into account and with her getting just over £3K per year in student loan, they deem that as too much for them as a couple (even though quite obviously they do not rely on each other financially as he has now run out of money!), so would they not take into account my partners and my income? Doesn't make sense if they didn't.....

He has 30 years to build up n.i. cont for full state pension,so no hurry yet.as for getting help from jcp re interview techniques etc tbh they are very very busy atm and probably couldnt offer much help to someone who`s spent 2 years at uni

Sues48

If your son has a recognised health condition which could be seen as a barrier in him finding work he can asked to be fast tracked to enable him to access immediately the help which is normally only available to claimants after they have been claiming for 6 months. Job Centres also have Disability Employment Advisers who can also help find training/ work preperation courses etc.

unemployedJCP

We must overlook the assumption that the Jobcentre Plus office is there to provide help to unemployed people - it has been branded as such (and claimants now are called "customers") but will always remain a dole office.

This is, it is a depressing environment (especially for those who wish to work - any scrounger might not mind the environment so much) although people usually spend around only 10-15 minutes in there.

If he signs on he will get a little money plus NIC paid. If he is there after 6 months more support will be available such as subsidy schemes and work trials. As he is under 25 he could be fast tracked for Flexible New Deal if you live in an area where it is available - this is generally a bad thing - Jobcentre Plus support will cease when referred to specialists.

Staff are very much on their own merits:- most staff are of the type where they think they are doing a society a favour by doing the kick-up-the-backside approach although the "customer" is likely to be seeking employment rather than the scrounger stereotyped applied to all. That is because you are unemployed you must be a scrounger - they dont discriminate - everyone is the same attitude.

Some staff are very friendly to your face although very spiteful behind your back and then there are the very few members of staff who understand the situation and realise encouragement is better than bullying - although these staff normally are the first to be dismissed as management see it as providing a "poor service".

When you sign on the staff member may do jobsearch with you - this is a formal way of submitting you to jobs that are likely to have been applied for anyway HOWEVER the difference is if the person fails to apply or is suspected of not applying then it is a 6 month sanction (he could sign off but that means, if im correct, that if he has ever got to sign on in the future that the 6 month sanction will apply?)

The place is full of security guards waiting to eject anyone who wishes to speak to a manager about their claim or those who don't have an appointment. Any query has to be made via telephone. You can't have a conversation with a human for more than a few minutes without an appointment.

So basically, with the exception of the recent one day course for recently unemployed "professionals" (?) there is no support for those claiming under 6 months at all (a jobsearch isn't support because the person should be doing that anyway and the jobs are the same as the jobpoints and website), they wont help you with a CV etc. or interview techniques and when you reach 6 months the support is pretty much "dont ask, dont get" the options are rarely explained to you although they are meant to be your "adviser".

If he signs on you really need to plan ahead for the worst case scenario of not being able to secure a job within 6 months, and see what scheme he is able to use.

---

My advice would be to lay down some ground rules, make it clear he isn't going to live here forever and allow him initially to be there rent free and support him. This is because, a lack of jobs at the moment, the worst thing he can do is get into the signing on routine...

I had to sign on myself a while back for a few months, it felt like the Jobcentre was holding me back, although my aim was seeking employment it came to the stage where it was all about compliance (if not the loss of monies require to live) and being prepared to be talked down to and abused, so it didnt get to you so much... then it was getting used to the environment, followed shortly by knowing how the system worked discovering how to use it to your favour (legally)... it becomes like a transistion into another lifestyle (although the money isn't enough for a "lifestyle").

As for just NIC credits... I wouldnt wish the Jobcentre on anyone. It just isn't worth it!

healy

unemployedJCP wrote: »

We must overlook the assumption that the Jobcentre Plus office is there to provide help to unemployed people - it has been branded as such (and claimants now are called "customers") but will always remain a dole office.

This is, it is a depressing environment (especially for those who wish to work - any scrounger might not mind the environment so much) although people usually spend around only 10-15 minutes in there.

If he signs on he will get a little money plus NIC paid. If he is there after 6 months more support will be available such as subsidy schemes and work trials. As he is under 25 he could be fast tracked for Flexible New Deal if you live in an area where it is available - this is generally a bad thing - Jobcentre Plus support will cease when referred to specialists.

Staff are very much on their own merits:- most staff are of the type where they think they are doing a society a favour by doing the kick-up-the-backside approach although the "customer" is likely to be seeking employment rather than the scrounger stereotyped applied to all. That is because you are unemployed you must be a scrounger - they dont discriminate - everyone is the same attitude.

Some staff are very friendly to your face although very spiteful behind your back and then there are the very few members of staff who understand the situation and realise encouragement is better than bullying - although these staff normally are the first to be dismissed as management see it as providing a "poor service".

When you sign on the staff member may do jobsearch with you - this is a formal way of submitting you to jobs that are likely to have been applied for anyway HOWEVER the difference is if the person fails to apply or is suspected of not applying then it is a 6 month sanction (he could sign off but that means, if im correct, that if he has ever got to sign on in the future that the 6 month sanction will apply?)

The place is full of security guards waiting to eject anyone who wishes to speak to a manager about their claim or those who don't have an appointment. Any query has to be made via telephone. You can't have a conversation with a human for more than a few minutes without an appointment.

So basically, with the exception of the recent one day course for recently unemployed "professionals" (?) there is no support for those claiming under 6 months at all (a jobsearch isn't support because the person should be doing that anyway and the jobs are the same as the jobpoints and website), they wont help you with a CV etc. or interview techniques and when you reach 6 months the support is pretty much "dont ask, dont get" the options are rarely explained to you although they are meant to be your "adviser".

If he signs on you really need to plan ahead for the worst case scenario of not being able to secure a job within 6 months, and see what scheme he is able to use.

---

My advice would be to lay down some ground rules, make it clear he isn't going to live here forever and allow him initially to be there rent free and support him. This is because, a lack of jobs at the moment, the worst thing he can do is get into the signing on routine...

I had to sign on myself a while back for a few months, it felt like the Jobcentre was holding me back, although my aim was seeking employment it came to the stage where it was all about compliance (if not the loss of monies require to live) and being prepared to be talked down to and abused, so it didnt get to you so much... then it was getting used to the environment, followed shortly by knowing how the system worked discovering how to use it to your favour (legally)... it becomes like a transistion into another lifestyle (although the money isn't enough for a "lifestyle").

As for just NIC credits... I wouldnt wish the Jobcentre on anyone. It just isn't worth it!

I do not know how you can read Jobcentre staffs minds.

I have never known them to be bullies or to abuse people.

I think your post gives a very false impression of reality.

Killmark

unemployedJCP wrote: »

We must overlook the assumption that the Jobcentre Plus office is there to provide help to unemployed people - it has been branded as such (and claimants now are called "customers") but will always remain a dole office.

This is more a societal attitude then one of most JCP staff. Virtually ever time I've heard it reffered to that way has been from customers.

unemployedJCP wrote: »

If he signs on he will get a little money plus NIC paid. If he is there after 6 months more support will be available such as subsidy schemes and work trials. As he is under 25 he could be fast tracked for Flexible New Deal if you live in an area where it is available - this is generally a bad thing - Jobcentre Plus support will cease when referred to specialists.

Thats not entirely true as the support transfers to specialist providers, however while on ND your still supported by your PA.

unemployedJCP wrote: »

Staff are very much on their own merits:- most staff are of the type where they think they are doing a society a favour by doing the kick-up-the-backside approach although the "customer" is likely to be seeking employment rather than the scrounger stereotyped applied to all. That is because you are unemployed you must be a scrounger - they dont discriminate - everyone is the same attitude.

That is an unfair comment, we're damned if we don't push people and then damned if we do.

unemployedJCP wrote: »

Some staff are very friendly to your face although very spiteful behind your back and then there are the very few members of staff who understand the situation and realise encouragement is better than bullying - although these staff normally are the first to be dismissed as management see it as providing a "poor service".

Again not a fair comment.

unemployedJCP wrote: »

When you sign on the staff member may do jobsearch with you - this is a formal way of submitting you to jobs that are likely to have been applied for anyway HOWEVER the difference is if the person fails to apply or is suspected of not applying then it is a 6 month sanction (he could sign off but that means, if im correct, that if he has ever got to sign on in the future that the 6 month sanction will apply?)

When someone signs on they agree to a jobseekers agreement, if they fail to abide to the agreement then why shouldn't they be sanctioned? There has to be a duty of care regarding public money.

unemployedJCP wrote: »

The place is full of security guards waiting to eject anyone who wishes to speak to a manager about their claim or those who don't have an appointment. Any query has to be made via telephone. You can't have a conversation with a human for more than a few minutes without an appointment.

The number of security guards is dependant on the number of incidents within each office so it varies, however in regards to queries about claims the majority of these need to be addressed by the benefit delivery centres which is why people are passed to the phones.

However in regards to appointments most staff have diaries with a 1hr lunch break, in my office on the signing team the're are no breaks so for lunch's your potentially seeing 1 person every 2 minutes.

unemployedJCP wrote: »

So basically, with the exception of the recent one day course for recently unemployed "professionals" (?) there is no support for those claiming under 6 months at all (a jobsearch isn't support because the person should be doing that anyway and the jobs are the same as the jobpoints and website), they wont help you with a CV etc. or interview techniques and when you reach 6 months the support is pretty much "dont ask, dont get" the options are rarely explained to you although they are meant to be your "adviser".

If he signs on you really need to plan ahead or the worst case scenario of not being able to secure a job within 6 months, and see what scheme he is able to use.

There is usually a large pool of providers people can be reffered to dependant on how long they have signed on and what they are looking for in terms of employment, in my office we have emails going round every few days to which we are encouraged to submit customers. This includes training courses resulting in NVQ's paid for by the employers who offer jobs to those who successfully complete.

AnxiousMum

Missmoneypenny - sorry I typed a reply to you yesterday, but by the time I went to post it - the forum had shut down on me! Thank you for your information above - very thoughtful of you indeed. I don't know that imagery would be an issue, as he reads novels galore. In fact, it's been one of his bug bears about not having extra money - no more trips to Waterstone to get the latest in his current series of books Was delighted to get his lovely big thick novel at Christmas, and 700 pages were devoured in a couple of days. He's always been an avid reader, and funnily, the assessor for the dyspraxia had mentioned that his excellent command of the english language and the extent of his vocabulary from reading, had in fact helped to mask the dyspraxia. It is something I will look into though - thank you

UnemployedJCP - well, I think other posters have made enough comment. I will not take your jaded view of the JS staff - I think that they often do a thankless job, and who knows, a positive 'customer' who is eager to find work, and takes time to thank them for their efforts and help, just might make a difference to the customers who follow him that day. I imagine they have a pretty tough job with alot of disgruntled customers, but I wonder how many actually take the time to thank them for the assistance and thought that goes into getting someone on the right track. I'll bet there's many advisors who go the extra mile every day, but just get dumped on when things don't go the customers way.

As for laying down ground rules Unemployed JCP - I think they've been outlined above as well. He will be paying room and board, which will be kept and returned to him when he gets a job - as he'll need the money for work clothes etc. The remainder of the money he gets to keep (if he gets any) will be required for transportation to job interviews etc. He certainly won't be buying Xbox games with his JSA, and a chocolate bar will be a treat I'm not out to make his life easy for him, but he does need to face reality and take control.

Re planning ahead, if in six months he doesn't have a job - his girlfriend will be going to university again in October to do her Masters Degree - and we don't know where she will be doing that as yet, so he can hardly plan along those lines. However, if in six months he is not working, he will likely return to Canada for six months as a friend has offered to employ both him and his brother at a saw mill for $25 per hour covering people's holiday hours during the summer. Considering they'd be staying with their Dad (and given he has stopped paying child support for the younger one, I'd have to wring his neck I think if he charged them room and board when one is working for university monies and the other working to save money for college course if he has chosen one by then!) - they would be able to earn the equivalent of about £1500 per month in their hands for a period of about 3 months each. Believe me, after shifts in the saw mill, he will then know what a hard days work is and might put some extra thought into what he wants to do in terms of career training.

I will find out today anyway when his appointment is set for, and will be going in with him for his appointment. Thank you everybody for your input

unemployedJCP

Sorry if I have offended anyone but until you get a snapshot of reality you wont ever start to realise that the Government isn't entirely the angels you think they are. It isn't solely the unemployed getting a hard time, the disabled are pretty much worse off. The whole system stinks. Not an extremist view, some woman jumped and killed herself and her child because as being a european national she required more conditions to claim benefit and they wouldnt accept her past working history, so they withdraw her claim for Housing Benefit after being turned down for Income Support. She was initially claiming JSA but as she became pregnant she lost entitlement. Just one of many cases.

C_Mababejive

Anxious mum..i operate in what i could only describe as a high pressure work environment! Sometimes its laid back but a lot of time its stressful. I find it very useful to make lists of things that need doing. Its amazing how much you can get done. The gulf in prioritisation is set only to frustrate you i think. In the end you cant make him do anything. I tend to be very down to earth and rather blunt becuase life is tough for most of us.
Excuses are like a$$holes-everyones got one.