New Year New Massive Job Cuts

DaddyBear

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Exactly.

The UK is still the worlds 6th largest manufacturer. In that regard, we punch well above our weight. But further decline is inevitable.

We simply CANNOT compete with countries where people get paid 50p a day, or $1 a day, or even $10 a day, to do the same job and produce the same product.

Far better we focus on other parts of a product lifecycle instead of manufacturing, particularly in low value goods or components that will inevitable get moved offshore.

No, we should focus on things that require real skill, rather being processes easily duplicated by someone on a dollar a day.

Things like research and development, design, finance, insurance, logistics, marketing, retailing.

Smoke and mirrors then.

Really2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

We constantly get lectured about the effects of supply and demand on house prices.

Possibly, for a number of years, the same could be applied to wages, (in a general way) in this country.

Deflationary.

Or places like china suffer increased wage inflation, much like the UK in the 70's.

Idonex

Conrad wrote: »

The chinese bolt things together, but they simply have not got the imagination we have. Having high speed hover trains is not a sign of anything.

And those trains were either bought from Japan or bought (stolen) from Siemens.

Thrugelmir

Really2 wrote: »

Or places like china suffer increased wage inflation, much like the UK in the 70's.

I was going to say that in answer to JQ's post.

Skilled labour rates in China are increasing rapidly. As skilled labour in some sectors is in short supply. Though there is still a wide differential to the UK.

Bulgaria still only has an annual average wage of £3.5k. So far closer to home.

Around 4 years ago. I worked for a software company than subcontracted programming work to India, the indians subcontracted the work to Rumania. And we ended up paying US$12 per hour for the work to a bank account in New York! The world now moves in mysterious ways.......

stueyhants

Keeping one step ahead of China and India is going to get harder and harder. They are sending record levels of people to Uni to get good quality Engineering and Science degrees. Eventually the investment in education will pay off and the value added stuff we used to do will be done cheaper in house.

We do have a significant lead in certain areas but I don't see the investment in maintaining that edge. Investment in the UK has been misdirected in to asset bubbles rather than competitive advantage. I hope this changes going forward.

Pennywise

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

No, we should focus on things that require real skill, rather being processes easily duplicated by someone on a dollar a day.

Things like research and development, design, finance, insurance, logistics, marketing, retailing.

So what do we do with the 50% or so school leavers who didn't manage to get the 5 GCSEs at 16 then? Not everyone is suited to the kinds of career you allude to. What is needed is a "balanced" economy where there are jobs for all abilities. The only things I'd agree with from your list are R&D and design which are truly "value added" services - all the others are just smoke and mirror industries with no substance behind them - the kind of thing that caused the recession in the first place by too much reliance being placed on them.

nearlynew

This brings the stupidity of rampant HPI into sharp focus.

If the billions spent on driving prices higher had been made available to cutting edge, fledgling industries instead, we would be in a much stronger position.

What a sad and idiotic waste of resources.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Pennywise wrote: »

So what do we do with the 50% or so school leavers who didn't manage to get the 5 GCSEs at 16 then? Not everyone is suited to the kinds of career you allude to. What is needed is a "balanced" economy where there are jobs for all abilities.

The 50% of school leavers will learn a hard lesson..... There is very little place in todays Britain for unskilled labour, and the jobs they used to rely on in things like manufacturing will simply not exist.

The only things I'd agree with from your list are R&D and design which are truly "value added" services - all the others are just smoke and mirror industries with no substance behind them - the kind of thing that caused the recession in the first place by too much reliance being placed on them.

This is the sort of response you'd expect from someone who is truly ignorant, I'm surprised to see it from you though, as you seem like a decent enough sort.

Think about it for one second..... What makes Coke or Pepsi different to Spar's own brand cola. Why are Coke and Pepsi blue chip companies, with people like Warren Buffet as long time investors?

Marketing. Brand building. Intellectual property. Advertising. Distribution.

Any idiot can very closely duplicate the taste, any idiot can pour sugar water into a bottle and try to sell it. But without the marketing, sales, distribution and retail channel management strategies behind it, you cannot be successful.

The sort of things you dismiss as "smoke and mirrors" are the entire value creating component behind some of the most successful and stable companies in the world.

Thrugelmir

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The 50% of school leavers will learn a hard lesson..... There is very little place in todays Britain for unskilled labour, and the jobs they used to rely on in things like manufacturing will simply not exist.




This is the sort of response you'd expect from someone who is truly ignorant, I'm surprised to see it from you though, as you seem like a decent enough sort.

Think about it for one second..... What makes Coke or Pepsi different to Spar's own brand cola. Why are Coke and Pepsi blue chip companies, with people like Warren Buffet as long time investors?

Marketing. Brand building. Intellectual property. Advertising. Distribution.

Any idiot can very closely duplicate the taste, any idiot can pour sugar water into a bottle and try to sell it. But without the marketing, sales, distribution and retail channel management strategies behind it, you cannot be successful.

The sort of things you dismiss as "smoke and mirrors" are the entire value creating component behind some of the most successful and stable companies in the world.

Virgin tried and failed. :eek:

So there is more to it than just having a brand. :rolleyes:

With the Companies you cite you overlook very important fact. A loyal national customer base. Something you don't find in markets like the UK.

Also investing into a wide range of drinks and snacks. Pepsi has been around since the 1920's. How many top British companies can trace their roots back that far?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Thrugelmir wrote: »

So there is more to it than just having a brand. :rolleyes:

Virgin tried and failed, because their marketing, distribution, retail channel management and advertising were not good enough, or different enough, to Coke and Pepsi.

However new companies can and do become dominant in the soft drink sector, Red Bull is a good example.

If you can't out-coke Coke, then do something different. Create an anti-brand, use guerilla marketing, extreme sports, before sliding the brand positioning to be more mainstream once you are dominant. Exactly what Red Bull has done.

And they are now a globally dominant player, not because their product is any different or better, but because their marketing and brand is superb.

It's all artificially flavoured caffeinated sugar water.... Only the marketing changes.

With the Companies you cite you overlook very important fact. A loyal national customer base. Something you don't find in markets like the UK. Also investing into a wide range of drinks and snacks. Pepsi has been around since the 1920's. How many top British companies can trace their roots back that far?

Red Bull had no customer base at all as it didn't exist. It is purely a marketing creation.

If coke or pepsi had poor marketing, they wouldn't exist today. Plenty of other brands have come and gone in that time. It takes real skill to keep the public engaged with a brand for as long as they have.

Look at another example.

Sony had the absolutely dominant personal music player in the cassette and CD era's of the 80's and 90's with the Sony Walkman. A whole generation of people grew up listening to "walkmans", the name became synonymous with personal music players. And having survived the transition from cassette to CD, and despite having a very good product with the MP3 walkman, they lost their dominance to Apple with the ipod.

Why? If not for design, marketing, advertising, and brand building.

Nobody knows, or cares, where an ipod or a walkman is manufactured. Manufacture of consumer electronic products is often switched between factories and countries. The success of those products is all down to the value adding abilities of what so many on here deride as "smoke and mirrors". The reality is that those "smoke and mirrors" are the way of the future for Britain, as without them, most major brands would cease to exist.