Withholding Personal Belongings

hairy_g

Spurs1967 wrote: »

I started a new job towards the end of November 2009. As soon as I started I heard that my employer had been through a vast amount of secretaries already that year which made in think really hard about the position. Towards the end of my first week I was informed that I was on a trial basis and that if i was required back I would be given a contract. I did have a conversation with my employer who asked if I could stay on but never received any contract. During up to the xmas period, I had a few run ins with my employer who spoke to me on occasions rudely, make certain comments which I overlooked and bascially made me dread going into work. After a very stressful year I decided I would not return to work after the xmas period. I informed the company I would not be returning and they have now sent me a letter stating I owe them £200 in overpayment because of the xmas holidays when the office was closed and that I would not be allowed to return to the office to collect my personal belongings until this was paid and I had returned the key I hold - can they actually do this?

I am assuming that, as you have already been paid for the christmas period, you are paid weekly.
As you have only been there since november, surely you don't think you are entitled to all that holiday pay?.
At least two thirds of this problem is your own fault, you could have turned up at work for 1 hour, enough time to leave them their key and collect your belongings.

rupee99

Uncertain wrote: »

I would need to check this one very carefully. It was my understanding that, in most business situations, you could only do this if it was an express part of the contract between two parties.

I was personally aware of a situation where a person took an item of equipment worth £1000 in for repair and asked for an estimate. He declined the estimate and decided to get it repaired elsewhere. However, the shop refused to return the item until he paid something like £100 they claim he owed them on an overdue account. As I understand it he went to the police who told the shopkeeper he would be arrested for extortion if he did not release the equipment immediately. When the shopkeeper took advice he was basically told that two wrongs don't make a right. Obviously he could sue for the £100 in the normal way if he could prove it was owed.

Even if they do have some lien rights they would need to provide reasonable proof of the amount the OP is alleged to owe them. If, let us say, it is actually £150 but they won't release her property until she gives them £200 what they are doing still amounts to extortion.

Lein rights extend back to the Statute of Westminster 1351 and before that in common law. Basically if anyone has anything in their possession (in this case goods left on a premises) s/he is entitled to hold them against any liquidated claim they have against the owner of the goods.

If you re-read my earlier posts I said firstly the OP should get details of their claim, and secondly that IMO the employer was being petty and pathetic. But they claim she owes them £200, that in their opinion is their liquidated claim, the value of the goods, within reason, are irrelevant in law.

rupee99

Vader123 wrote: »

If no contract exists in paper, there is still one in place and minimum notice periods, of which are certainly more than 1 hour, usually a week.

Vader

In employment law there is no minimum notice length on the part of an employee without a contract.

If it ever came to a fight in court, a hardly likely happenstance in these circumstances, the court would decide what is reasonable. For an uncontracted employee with short service I doubt they would require any.

PasturesNew

Spurs1967 wrote: »

I started a new job towards the end of November 2009.

Let's assume Monday 30 November

Spurs1967 wrote: »

I owe them £200 in overpayment because of the xmas holidays when the office was closed

I will assume the office was closed from 5.30pm Thursday 24th through to 9am Monday 4th January.

I will assume the OP works five days per week, Mon-Friday and pay is on the last day of the month.

If the above assumptions were true, then the OP will have worked for 19 days and been paid for 25.

So, they have most likely overpaid the OP significantly, the OP still has their key ... and is annoyed they've kept her (assuming) cardigan and mug.

Any

Since November? I read September, my mistake.
Even if there was contract that would still be probationary period and in probationary period either party can cease the employement without notice.

So if the OP already got paid till the end of Dec but actually didn't work then she certainly owes them the money.

Uncertain

rupee99 wrote: »

Lein rights extend back to the Statute of Westminster 1351 and before that in common law. Basically if anyone has anything in their possession (in this case goods left on a premises) s/he is entitled to hold them against any liquidated claim they have against the owner of the goods.

If you re-read my earlier posts I said firstly the OP should get details of their claim, and secondly that IMO the employer was being petty and pathetic. But they claim she owes them £200, that in their opinion is their liquidated claim, the value of the goods, within reason, are irrelevant in law.

OK, so can the OP exercise a lien on the office key she holds against her cardigan and mug (or whatever). What happens if she has left 10p in the cardigan pocket? Are these liquidated funds? !!!

More seriously though, given that there seems little chance of her getting a decent reference from this shower, wouldn't she be better to hang on to the £200 and see if they sue? (I assume her goods are worth far less)?

Somehow I suspect the chance of them actually bothering to pay thier fee and file a claim are slim.....

Pete*G_4

hmm.. 1st post, 1 quick reply, then the OP does a runner.

troll?

Uncertain

PasturesNew wrote: »

Let's assume Monday 30 November



I will assume the office was closed from 5.30pm Thursday 24th through to 9am Monday 4th January.

I will assume the OP works five days per week, Mon-Friday and pay is on the last day of the month.

If the above assumptions were true, then the OP will have worked for 19 days and been paid for 25.

So, they have most likely overpaid the OP significantly, the OP still has their key ... and is annoyed they've kept her (assuming) cardigan and mug.

She is of course entitled to statutory paid holiday pro rata 28 days per year.

Also, given the lack of a written contract, she could reasonably assume that the firm was only closed for the Christmas Bank Holidays and not for a two week shutdown.

Given the ridiculous petty attitude the company are displaying, plus the fact there seems no chance of any useful reference she may as well string them along!

Uncertain

Pete*G wrote: »

hmm.. 1st post, 1 quick reply, then the OP does a runner.

troll?

Possibly, but then again her post was only 5 hours ago. Some people do go out and not spend all day on forums!

Pete*G_4

i don't either, I sit at work and while away the time waiting for something to do