Withholding Personal Belongings

Spurs1967_2

I started a new job towards the end of November 2009. As soon as I started I heard that my employer had been through a vast amount of secretaries already that year which made in think really hard about the position. Towards the end of my first week I was informed that I was on a trial basis and that if i was required back I would be given a contract. I did have a conversation with my employer who asked if I could stay on but never received any contract. During up to the xmas period, I had a few run ins with my employer who spoke to me on occasions rudely, make certain comments which I overlooked and bascially made me dread going into work. After a very stressful year I decided I would not return to work after the xmas period. I informed the company I would not be returning and they have now sent me a letter stating I owe them £200 in overpayment because of the xmas holidays when the office was closed and that I would not be allowed to return to the office to collect my personal belongings until this was paid and I had returned the key I hold - can they actually do this?

Vader123

I decided I would not return to work after the xmas period. I

You just quit?

No notice period? You didn't inform them?

sent me a letter stating I owe them £200 in overpayment because of the xmas holidays

Presumably you got paid holiday pay on the "bank holidays" over Xmas, so yes, asking it back is fair enough.

I would write back asking for a breakdown.

Are you disputing the money owed?

and that I would not be allowed to return to the office to collect my personal belongings until this was paid and I had returned the key I hold - can they actually do this?

You want your personal belongings back, they want their key and overpaid wages back.

Whats the problem?

Please explain as I can't see it?

Vader

rupee99

They must give you a detailed account of why they believe you owe £200.

If it is correct they can exercise a "lien" over your belongings.

On the other hand once you have their "statement" if you think it is wrong and you believe that either do not owe them anything and/or they actually owe you money then you can demand return of your assets and take action in front of an Employment Tribunal for witheld wages.

Personally I find the actions of the employer in these circumstances petty and pathetic, even if you do owe them something what are the items worth to them?

Vader123

Personally I find the actions of the employer in these circumstances petty and pathetic, even if you do owe them something what are the items worth to them?

Really?

This person left work with no notice (unless the OP clarifies?)

Asking for an overpayment back and the (security risk?) seems fair enough.

Vader

rupee99

Yes, it is petty because the items are likely to have little intrinsic value, its pathetic because for the amount involved it could backfire on them out of all proportion.

If the OP believes she is owed money even if it unfounded and goes to an Employment Tribunal their costs will far exceed £200. Should they win they almost certainly will not get a costs award.

BTW they cannot, legally, exercise a lien in respect of the key, only the alleged debt.

Spurs1967_2

I am asking for a breakdown. I wasnt under a contract and as far as I was concerned/aware they could just tell me any day they didnt want me to return to the office without notice. I am querying whether they can withhold my personal belongings because legally I did not think they were allowed to do this, they should either send them on or arrange for me to collect them and then discuss the matter of overpayment if any. The query has come over overpayment because the office closed over the xmas holidays.

rupee99

Spurs1967 wrote: »

I am asking for a breakdown. I wasnt under a contract and as far as I was concerned/aware they could just tell me any day they didnt want me to return to the office without notice. I am querying whether they can withhold my personal belongings because legally I did not think they were allowed to do this, they should either send them on or arrange for me to collect them and then discuss the matter of overpayment if any. The query has come over overpayment because the office closed over the xmas holidays.

Although you did not have a written contract there are certain rights in employment legislation, such as minimum holiday entitlement, that apply to everyone.

They are legally entitled to exercise a lien* over a liquidated debt (as the amount they allege you owe them) however ill advised that might be.

Lien means that they can hold any assets that are in their possession and they did not acquire by illegal means

maninthestreet

The OP makes no mention of what their notice period actually was - it's quite possible that the required notice period was no more than 1 hour.

Vader123

maninthestreet wrote: »

The OP makes no mention of what their notice period actually was - it's quite possible that the required notice period was no more than 1 hour.

If no contract exists in paper, there is still one in place and minimum notice periods, of which are certainly more than 1 hour, usually a week.

Vader

Uncertain

rupee99 wrote: »

They are legally entitled to exercise a lien* over a liquidated debt (as the amount they allege you owe them) however ill advised that might be.

Lien means that they can hold any assets that are in their possession and they did not acquire by illegal means

I would need to check this one very carefully. It was my understanding that, in most business situations, you could only do this if it was an express part of the contract between two parties.

I was personally aware of a situation where a person took an item of equipment worth £1000 in for repair and asked for an estimate. He declined the estimate and decided to get it repaired elsewhere. However, the shop refused to return the item until he paid something like £100 they claim he owed them on an overdue account. As I understand it he went to the police who told the shopkeeper he would be arrested for extortion if he did not release the equipment immediately. When the shopkeeper took advice he was basically told that two wrongs don't make a right. Obviously he could sue for the £100 in the normal way if he could prove it was owed.

Even if they do have some lien rights they would need to provide reasonable proof of the amount the OP is alleged to owe them. If, let us say, it is actually £150 but they won't release her property until she gives them £200 what they are doing still amounts to extortion.

Any

OP - did you take any holiday apart from the period between Xmas and New Year?

Ask them for breakdown and then we can decide. If you took all holiday earned up to beginning of Xmas and then took extra holiday in between Xmas and New year then yes you owe them the money.

If you didn't take any other holiday, chances are that you accrued enough holiday to take for that period between Xmas and New Year - even though you don't have contract, you worked for them and as such you would be accruing holiday at least at the rate of minimal legal requirements...