Spelling and Grammar

Absinthe_Fairy

euronorris wrote: »

Really? I did not know that! Must admit, I am guilty of ranting about the Americanisms at times (Oopsy!).

Have you got a few examples for us? Or can you point us in the direction of a site that perhaps provides more information on this. Sorry, I just find language really interesting these days.

I wish we were encouraged, much more, to learn a second language whilst at school. It would be so valuable to have!

I used to rant about Americanisms too, and felt guilty when I found out they weren't really Americanisms at all!

The use of 'Fall' for 'Autumn' is one of them, as is 'gray' for grey'. Also, the use of -ize at the end of words (e.g. realize) is 18th and 19th century English - read a Jane Austen novel and you'll see what I mean!

I used to get angry when I thought Austen novels had been 'Americanised'!

Almo

wontfallforit wrote: »

Not sure about websites, but Bill Bryson's book Made In America is a really good read on this topic.

Yes, it's a great introduction to the subject. Mother Tongue, also by Bryson is another good one, and covers the issue of American/British English a little.

One of the best examples is fall which is obsolete in British English now, but was in use to describe the season after summer and before winter as detailed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autumn

(yes, it's a Wiki, sorry - first one that come up! search fall + etymology to find more)

Others, taken from Mother Tongue (I have three copies ) include homespun, deck of cards (rather than pack), mad (for angry) and even the phrase I guess.

I have to correct myself, and say that AE is more like BE from perhaps the 16h-18th centuries, rather than 18th/19th as I wrote. Pronunciation examples are harder to explain without using the phonetic alphabet, and are admittedly less pronounced. Typically, they cover the 'hard' /a/ sound in words like bath (both pronunciations are common still in Britain), a definite /r/ sound in words ending /r/ + /consonant/ and the way of clearly enunciating all syllables in a word, where British English would gloss over them (library for example).

I don't have any websites off hand, but if you are seriously interested in the subject euronorris, there are a huge number of resources available. I think it's fascinating, but I'm a bit of a language geek .

Edited: absinthe fairy got there before me!

Almo

Absinthe_Fairy wrote: »

I think you are right in this - I read avidly as a child, still do, and my spelling and grammar are (mostly) very good, despite hardly having any grammar lessons at school. When you read lots of books you start to get a feel for what is right and most of the time you can tell instinctively when something is spelled wrongly.

Ooh, from this and your other post about 'Americanisms' I think I may have found a kindred spirit!

Fly_Baby

Fly_Baby wrote: »

Everyone here is commenting on the OP's command of English - could anyone kindly re-write the original post to make it perfect in terms of spelling and grammar? Just curious.

Thanks in advance!

Anyone at all?

euronorris

Thank you all!

I am going to have a look and see if those books are available on the bookdepository.com site (free postage).

I also read a lot now. However, trying to encourage me to read whilst I was at school was an exercise in futlity for most.

Oddly, it was seeing the first Lord of The Rings movie that inspired my love of books. I couldn't wait for the next two films, so I got a copy of all three and read them from cover to cover within 1 month. And so it began........

Oh, I miss having friends who live close to me. We used to swap books all the time. Certainly helped to keep the cost down.

euronorris

Fly_Baby wrote: »

Anyone at all?

No thank you.

I would, no doubt, make at least one mistake (more likely several) so I am not going to leave myself open for the criticism.

I think previous posters were simply trying to point out that the OP shouldn't criticise others for something that they are, clearly, no expert on themselves.

Fly_Baby

euronorris wrote: »

No thank you.

I would, no doubt, make at least one mistake (more likely several) so I am not going to leave myself open for the criticism.

I think previous posters were simply trying to point out that the OP shouldn't criticise others for something that they are, clearly, no expert on themselves.

I am not trying to launch yet another debate - just genuinely curious.

IMHO though - and not meaning you - anyone feeling entitled to comment on another person's language ability should be expected to prove what exacly is wrong and what would be the right way of saying that.

rupee99

Fly_Baby wrote: »

I am not trying to launch yet another debate - just genuinely curious.

IMHO though - and not meaning you - anyone feeling entitled to comment on another person's language ability should be expected to prove what exacly is wrong and what would be the right way of saying that.

There are a number of cliches, "hoisted by one's own petard,"" people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones," "you cannot see the chip on your shoulder because of the mote in your eye," etc etc that are very pertinent.

There is not, imo, any obligation on other posters to correct the OP, if that person is decrying others when clearly "their own house is not in order."

Fly_Baby

rupee99 wrote: »

There is not, imo, any obligation on other posters to correct the OP, if that person is decrying others when clearly "their own house is not in order."

No obligation surely but then why not do it? If they clearly see the mistakes?

OP was not decrying others - he/she was pointing out how inadequate language teaching has become and did not say that his/her language was great as opposed. Yet all he/she got back was personalised comments and not a single post of constructive criticism (apart from 'there' vs 'their').

Is he/she right then? Nobody can spell yet everybody is happy to criticise others?

euronorris

Fly Baby - The OP also did not offer any constructive criticism or solutions to the 'problem'.