Disiplinary and facebook

wontfallforit

acebanditcat wrote: »

i certainly wont be looking for another job in sales but will return to either admin or retail if i can or even look at something entirely new. ironicly things had only just started getting better for me and the other half after the last 8 years of struggle and i got a year and a half left of my iva too. so i will have to find something extremely fast

Speaking from experience, there are decent jobs in sales where this kind of culture doesn't exist. It's just a matter of finding them. You'd be hard pressed to find an organisation that doesn't pressurise their salespersons in one way or another, but your company seems to take it to the extreme - which is especially bizarre given the actual revenue you allege to bring in.

Best of luck x

caeler

I didn't want to read and run.

I think you've been offered lots of varying advice and your obviously not that happy with the politics in your office or the way things are managed and that you might after all this be wanting to look for a new job anyway.

Your company doesn't sound very sophisticated with its approach and policy so I doubt they would accept your partner in attendance they will stick with legal requirements and by offering you a 'witness' to be present shows their lack of understanding. I think if you attend you'll be hard pushed to ask for it to be postponed, they have given you 48 hours notice which is reasonable and you've not said prior that you need more time to prepare. However if you have not received a copy of the policy, I'd suggest you use technicalities, if you want more time then tell them you'll need a copy of the disciplinary policy so you can prepare. Use words like automatically unfair and they'll soon relent!

I think taking in a 'letter' is a good idea, so you have something to refer to during the meeting, to remind yourself of your key points.

Most importantly I recommend you listen to what they say very carefully. You have 6 years service, just because you've missed your target they'll need alot more to dismiss you on first offence and although they are not that clever they will not want an employment tribunal on their hands.

Remember you have the right to to adjourn the meeting, that way you can compose yourself, consider your response, or take 5 minutes if you feel yourself getting upset.

Remember any decision they reach lets say its a first or second written warning, you get to appeal. Although I dread to think who'll hear it and if you have a HR team of any description who keeps them in check?

This meeting could be to simply bring to your attention that your performance is considered as being poor, to reclarify what your objectives/targets are (ie quantity over quality, etc) and when they will be reviewed next.

Do not be tempted to go in and talk before they set out the purpose of the meeting, what their issues with you are and make sure you understand. If they start the meeting and ask what you have to say for yourself, just say something like 'its your meeting, you called me in' or 'I didn't fully understand the letter, could you please explain further'?

If they start using information they have not provided you with, ie. showing you statistics, etc ask for a copy and remind them they are supposed to give you a copy prior to the meeting. That could be another legit reason to get more time and the meeting postponed. Plus another technicality that they have not followed a fair process.

I hope you get on OK and remember to update us.

Agree with the others about facebook and grievance, but if your disciplinary turns out to be minor then you may decide not to raise. Obviously its your choice. If I were brave I'd probably approach my colleague and ask her why she thinks I'm lazy and did she know how much profit I make the company.

Mudd14

acebanditcat wrote: »

Busterian may I ask a few questions?

If I go in at 8.30 and ask for a postponement do I tell them its so i can contact Acas? Also what happens if they say i can't postpone it?

If they agree do i then email the grievence to the MD straight away? my querie is that in the past where people have tried to complain about the office manager to him also he does is email her the details and tells her to sort it out.
We have no HR person anymore as she left in novemember, so i have none else to go to. I can copy in a email to the chairman of the group but equally he is the same as the MD. so if i email the details of the grievence then they will be fully aware of this prior to my disiplinary for call stats. knowing the way they work they will then try everything to get rid of me at that meeting.

How much notice were you given about the meeting? Were the details of the discplinary set out? Were you told that you have the right to be accompanied?

acebanditcat

i had a letter left on my desk on friday at 4pm while i was on my break and yes it does say i can have a witness

kelloggs36

Not read ALL the thread, so apologies if it has been covered: WHY did you not make the required number of calls per day? Was it purely because you could not fit them in due to spending longer but getting results? If not, if you had made the calls would that not have resulted in EVEN LARGER profits? If there is a genuine reason for not making the calls, then you need to explain this, but if not and you relied on the profits from the calls that you did make then you will be hard put to explain why you did not attempt to get even better results.

acebanditcat

when a customer places an order they will either give you product codes, manufacturer codes, machine models or a brief description. they may have had the item before which is obviously easier to find but if not you have to try and find it. This will be by using the main catalogue (size if yellow pages, the software we now use, the internet or phoning the suppliers) If you phone one customer and they wish to order 30 or so items it willtake time to put the order on. In the past our software was that slow it kept freezing. The easiest and quickist way is to write it down and put it into the computer later. However as soon as you put the phone down you can either have to answer the next call or a colleague is trying to transfer a call to you where they have answered the call to one of your customers. Some customers orders are quite straight forward and if you don't put the order on straight away it doesn't matter provided its there by 5.30. However you can get a list of products from a customer who wants a quote and prices there and then or needs to be phoned back once you've sourced better prices. Telephone calls transfered to you by colleagues and calls to suppliers and calls to other internal departments do not count. I could be dealing with a supplier for 20 minutes and all it procves is that i have done no work. I agree the more calls i make there's more potential profit but equally i can phone 10 people get either no answer, an answermachine or get response straight away from them that nothing is needed and those calls don't count. I do also have a lot of customers who when they order large quantities send faxes or emails so when i am dealing with those orders i am not phoning out.

LondonDiva

OP - you MUST, must take the advice of busterian and other posters re the disciplinary postponement if you seriously want to deal this properly.

I’m a manager who’sjust come out the other side in disciplining a member of staff & the legal loopholes to tick all the boxes were incredible.Giving you notice on Friday lunchtime about an 8.30am hearing on Monday morning does not count as sufficient notice by any reading of employment law and definitely does not meet any test of 'fairness' which is what most tribunals and places look for.

Do not 'formally' participate in the hearing tomorrow. You need to go in, ask them for further details of the official HR disciplinary processes and then ask for a hearing date to be set at a convenient time for you, them and the person you will be bringing along to support you. It should be at least a week / couple of weeks unless your behaviour amounts to gross misconduct, in which case you should have been suspended on full pay pending a hearing. If you really want to be irritating, you can ask who your contact is in HR to give you advice about the process as they are supposed to be an impartial department.

If you don't have a union rep or a mate at work you trust, you are entitled to bring in someone - however they can only attend to support you / help you (nudge you if they think you need a time out to get your thoughts together / calm down (they cannot directly address the hearing as they are not part of it).

Don't be pressured into having the hearing, as you are in a very strong position & they on dodgy legal ground if things have happened as you say. Take lots of notes, print out the FB information for future reference, and try to get evidence in time for the proper meeting.

Whatever you do, make sure they know the meeting tomorrow was a chance for you to hear their concerns so that you could go away & prep your defence. Follow this up with a formal registered letter / email for audit purposes.

Good luck

Savvy_Sue

I don't think anyone has said what will happen if they decline to postpone the hearing, because I can only second those far better informed people than me who say that giving you notice on Friday afternoon that you've got a disciplinary first thing Monday is NOT sufficient notice!

However, they might, if they have any sense, backtrack and say "Oh no this isn't an actual disciplinary, this is just an investigation so we have all the facts and you know what this is about."

If they don't, but insist on going ahead, I would ask them to note that you have requested, and they have declined, an adjournment.

And then go get advice from ACAS! (Remember you can have a good look round their site tonight, there's a lot of information about what a disciplinary process should look like.) Because if the outcome is anything other than dismissing this, I think you will have strong grounds for a grievance, and for getting any warning removed from your record.

You still won't be popular, but at least there won't be anything recorded for reference purposes.

acebanditcat

we have no HR department or union and i have noone other than my other half whom i can trust.
i also have no reports i can produce.

nearlyrich

intranix wrote: »

Well something doesnt add up does it?

Priority number one for any company is profit surely, if what you are saying is true then why the disciplinary?

Either a) what you're saying isnt true

or b) your manager is !!!!!!.

I have worked for companies like this, they set out their KPI's and nothing matters, if you hit your monthly target in one call that lasted 3 hours they would still want 30 calls in a 4 hour morning. Some managers are !!!!!! they can't see the big picture.

OP you need to work out how to do the right number of calls if you are not doing enough, act contrite and tell the manager your plan to improve your call stats, the FB issue is separate and should be raised separately. Just because the manager hasn't kept the disciplinary confidential which is unprofessional to say the least doesn't mean they don't have a case against you for none performance.Good luck.