Electricains : Help

homeless75

Calling all electricians out there .. need a bit of help.

Ripped out old kitchen and in process of installing new one now. The place had a Electrical survey in Jan 2005 when we bought it ... we got the same chappie to come around and have a freindly chat and look at the electric work that OH is doing now.
He has now told us that the wires that were being used for Cooker and hob are not heavy duty ones and will need changing and this that and other.

I appreciate that there are rules and regs that have to be followed .. why did this same chappie give us a certificate valid for 5 years a year ago for the same wire and is now humming and ahhing over the wire ?

Also we have not really added any extra sockets or anythign to what it had before ... do you very nice electricians know if we are ok to do the wiring ourselves ? Or do we have to have a qualified sparky to get this done ?

OH has checked every socket that he has re wired with appliances and made sure they are all working and nothign goes bang ... we have also tried to get a few appliances workign together at same time to make sure nothign goes Bang .. it doesnt.

Any help would be appreciated. Please bear with me when replying back with technical terms ... only a woman ... so explain in simple english please.

Many thanks

Homeless75

EasilyAggravated

i wouldnt do it yourself. the reason hes pointed it out is because the rules and regulations changed not so long ago. so hes actually helping you, even though it might not seem like he is. sounds like a good sparky to me.
the old wires were several strands. and of black and red colours. the new laws state it has to be one thick strand and of blue and brown colours.

espresso

EasilyAggravated wrote:

i wouldnt do it yourself. the reason hes pointed it out is because the rules and regulations changed not so long ago. so hes actually helping you, even though it might not seem like he is. sounds like a good sparky to me.
the old wires were several strands. and of black and red colours. the new laws state it has to be one thick strand and of blue and brown colours.

But there should be no need to rewire just because of having a new kitchen fitted even if the wiring regs have changed.

p4u1_2

Firstly you should be aware that the kitchen comes under part P of the building regulations. Therefore you will need a certificate for any newly installed sockets, switches, lighting, etc. This does not include replacing like for like, i.e. old double socket for new double socket, but ???may??? include replacing old single socket for new double socket - not entirely sure about this.

Regarding the cooker, small cookers (upto 3Kw) can be connected to a 13A socket, especially where the hob is a gas one. If the cooker is a twin oven jobby with hob then you will require the correct cable (4mm2 twin & earth) terminated with a cooker point and going back to the board connected to a suitable sized circuit breaker / fuse, usually 20Amp

For more info take a look at:
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/diy_electrics_cooker_circuits.htm

Also, for info on Part P take a look at:
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/new%20rules.htm

Good Luck!!!

weekendwarrior

You can still do electrical work yourself but it needs inspecting ang testing afterwards in most cases, you also need to notify building control before you start the work.

The wire for the cooker circuit may not be thick enough for the new cooker / oven that is being fitted, perhaps this is why it needs updating?

As for this statement- the old wires were several strands. and of black and red colours. the new laws state it has to be one thick strand and of blue and brown colours.

That is not true! Yes the new wires will be Blue and brown now but thick cable is still multistranded, it is like this so that it can be bent. 6mm or 10mm wire would be almost impossible to bend if was not stranded!

Normally an electric single oven can be wired into a plug and plugged into a socket. A electric hob requires it's own dedicated radial circuit, the thickness of wire is often 6mm, but it depends on several factors such as the load of the hob and the length of the cable feeding it. Diversification is also allowed on electric cookers / hobs.

The new rules for electrical saftey are here- http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130906

p4u1_2

EasilyAggravated wrote:

i wouldnt do it yourself. the reason hes pointed it out is because the rules and regulations changed not so long ago. so hes actually helping you, even though it might not seem like he is. sounds like a good sparky to me.
the old wires were several strands. and of black and red colours. the new laws state it has to be one thick strand and of blue and brown colours.

Yes the colours have changed, but the strands is more to do with the cable being flexible. 6mm2 in one strand would not be at all flexible, therefore it is multi-strand.

p4u1_2

p4u1 wrote:

Firstly you should be aware that the kitchen comes under part P of the building regulations. Therefore you will need a certificate for any newly installed sockets, switches, lighting, etc. This does not include replacing like for like, i.e. old double socket for new double socket, but ???may??? include replacing old single socket for new double socket - not entirely sure about this.

Regarding the cooker, small cookers (upto 3Kw) can be connected to a 13A socket, especially where the hob is a gas one. If the cooker is a twin oven jobby with hob then you will require the correct cable (4mm2 twin & earth) terminated with a cooker point and going back to the board connected to a suitable sized circuit breaker / fuse, usually 20Amp

For more info take a look at:
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/diy_electrics_cooker_circuits.htm

Also, for info on Part P take a look at:
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/new%20rules.htm

Good Luck!!!

Sorry, should have said 6mm2 twin & earth, not 4mm2. Was thinking earth bonding cable at the time!!!:o

homeless75

Hello Guys,

Wow talk about a quick reply and good ones at that too !!!

Marvellous ... Thanks for that.

Yeah i agree with you all about the fact that maybe we should have got some proper help .... we are still very serious about getting it all done by a professional. If anyone of you can spare the time and travel all the way down to sunny East Sussex ... then please let me know !!!! ( kidding )

Once again .. thank you very much for your views and help.

As for the thickness of wires and double to single to double ... amm ... but again we haven't added any extra sockets or changed any appliances in the amps they draw. Amm... talk about stuck in a hard place.

Might go and make a few phone calls to get the job done right ...

Thanks ...

Homeless75

YorkshireBoy

p4u1 wrote:

Sorry, should have said 6mm2 twin & earth...

You can't be as specific as that p4u1 - especially when replying to someone who is considering doing the job themselves.

Depending on the installation method employed, length of cable run, protective device installed, and of course the loading of the cooker itself, it is quite possible that the cable may need to be 10mm2.

EDIT:

usually 20Amp

I've never seen a double oven with hob supplied from a 20A protective device. It'll be at least 32A, and more than likely 40/45A for the appliance you describe.

p4u1_2

YorkshireBoy wrote:

You can't be as specific as that p4u1 - especially when replying to someone who is considering doing the job themselves.

Depending on the installation method employed, length of cable run, protective device installed, and of course the loading of the cooker itself, it is quite possible that the cable may need to be 10mm2.

EDIT:I've never seen a double oven with hob supplied from a 20A protective device. It'll be at least 32A, and more than likely 40/45A for the appliance you describe.

Fair comment re: being specific. As for the protective device, that would depend on the cooker. For example, a single oven connected to a cooker circuit, can be connected to a socket I know, would not require a 32A breaker. In my house, the breaker for the cooker is 20A for this very reason, single oven with a gas hob. This is as installed by the builders 15 years ago.

I would always suggest installing 6mm2 for a cooker unless you are installing a monster cooker (greater than 13KW), even if its only for a single oven. This way, in years to come, there's no need to run new cable if you decide to go all electric. 6mm2 / 32A would be adequate for a double oven 4 hob standalone cooker as installed in most domestic kitchens.

homeless75

Hello again,

The oven was double gas one and now has been changed over to a single electric one.
Hob was a electric plate one and now has been changed over to ceramic hob .. i understand that this has to be on its own Ring Main as it draws a lot of juice and more than happy with this.

I think we are getting there .....

Thanks again for all your help guys ... any more pointers and help .. keep it coming.

Homeless75