Bad experience with Talk Talk (LLU customer)

garibaldi8

I tried to sign up to TT's calls and free broadband deal. Their website indicated that it would be easy to transfer from my current broadband supplier, Wanadoo - just ask for a MAC when we say so, and we'll transfer you over with minimal loss of supply.

The calls element went live at the beginning of May, and I was told at the time that my broadband would go live in June - I just needed to get the MAC from Wanadoo (by now, they were Orange).

Orange provided the MAC after some delay, and I sent it to TT. A fortnight later, they advised me that the MAC was incorrect. So I talked to Orange again - the MAC was in fact correct but it was, they explained, an LLU MAC. I had no clue what that was at that stage - but it soon became clear that Wanadoo had (without explaining the details to customers) transferred customers to Local Loop Unbundled services, where the local BT exchange allowed (urban areas). This was, of course, good news in the main, as the connection speed had increased to up to 8mg. However, what they did not say was that it would make it incredibly difficult to change broadband suppliers in future.

After a 2 hour telephone call to TT today (passed from pillar to post, one adviser after another contradicting themselves, refusing to pass me to a manager, on hold for ages, and eventually asking to make a formal complaint, only to be kept on hold again while waiting to speak to customer services - where I had started) I think I have their definitive response. TT say that they do not accept LLU MACs, so cannot transfer me to broadband. However, as the calls element has started, I cannot cancel the whole thing on the grounds that they have failed to provide the service - they say they are providing the calls service, so I am bound to their 18 month contract, or pay the £70 cancellation charge.

The only way they will provide me with broadband is if I come to them having 'cleared' my previous broadband supply. I got two different explanations as to how I might do this: cancel my Orange broadband, wait 14 days without broadband while a 'marker' is taken off my line, then apply for TT broadband (which might take another couple of weeks); or alternatively, cancel Orange broadband, take up a contract with a non-LLU supplier for broadband, cancel after the minimum period, then go back to TT. I can't say I have any confidence in them knowing how this might work and, in any case, I don't want to lose my connection for many weeks.

I have asked them to consider cancelling the service and not charging me £70, and explained that if they do not agree to this, I will pursue my complaint to Otelo. I suggested that it might be cost effective for them to resolve this now, rather than get into protracted complaint correspondence. i am promised a call back...

I am concerned, however, at this sharp practice. There will be many customers on LLU exchanges, and some of them will be with ISPs who have simply swapped them over to LLU without explanation. I had no way of knowing, until after the TT contract started, that there would be any difficulty in transferring my supply. TT even checked my telephone number and postcode at the start of the process, and told me that TT broadband was available.

The deal is not cost effective for me on the basis of calls alone, as I spend about £4 per month on calls with BT, against the £9.99 I will be paying TT.

steve!_10

Hi,

It's my belief that this problem is of TT's making because of the lack of clarity on their part. However there are solutions:

1) Otelo as you've said. I don't think this is a particularly sound way. For a start the charge they'll get clobbered with from Otelo isn't going to be as high as the amount they'll get from you after 18 months (unless it's versus the £70 cancellation fee). It's also a major pain for you, and you won't have fun jumping through all the hoops, and the case doesn't sound clear cut to me anyway (it is possible to migrate from LLU, but BT haven't exactly made it easy for ISPs, and mainstream ISPs won't touch it with a bargepole).

2) Go via another ISP. Very few ISPs will handle an LLU MAC, but when some of them do, they'll not only migrate you, but during the process they'll move you off LLU and thus enabling you to migrate to TT. I'd recommend Zen in this case:

http://www.zenbroadband.com/athome.aspx

Give them a call and see if they still take LLU MACs, but I'm sure they do.

Incidentally, I've worked with broadband provisioning for 3 years which is why I know all this. I'd also steer well clear of TT. You've already been burnt once, so shame on them. But if they burn you two times, then shame on you.

xycom1

I concur with steve's impression of talktalk - having been stuck with them for broadband for a year, if I were to be stuck with them for 18 months then I think I would have killed myself.

Sounds like £70 well spent to me...

garibaldi8

Thanks both for your replies - I emailed Zen and they replied almost straight away - yes, they would accept an LLU MAC migration. I'm seriously considering that move (particularly as their customer service is light years ahead of my other contacts with ISPs). From the feedback I've had, it looks as though I should stay away from TT - and if it costs me £70 to see the back of them, I guess it will have to. I didn't receive the promised call back from TT today (no surprises there) so will indulge in one last round of correspondence with them to dispute the cancellation fee, before cancelling the contract and my direct debit - they'll have to sue me for it.

Thanks again.

garibaldi8

I'd be grateful for your thoughts on another question though - can it be true that TT cannot accept an LLU MAC for migration (ie its technically not possible to migrate) if Zen can?

steve!_10

It is *technically* possible unless they're migrating you to LLU (currently I don't believe you can migrate from one LLU circuit to another). The problem is that it involves more manual work (they literally have to fill out a Word doc and email it to BT). I don't think TT have LLU enabled yet, which is why I'm sure they can, they just won't for reasons unknown (most likely they haven't got a procedure in place). Whereas Zen are a small(er) ISP and very technically inclined. BT also have to show equivilance to all ISPs, if one ISP can do something then you can bet that the rest can as well, they're just not going to for their own reasons.

xycom1

garibaldi8 wrote:

Thanks both for your replies - I emailed Zen and they replied almost straight away - yes, they would accept an LLU MAC migration. I'm seriously considering that move (particularly as their customer service is light years ahead of my other contacts with ISPs). From the feedback I've had, it looks as though I should stay away from TT - and if it costs me £70 to see the back of them, I guess it will have to. I didn't receive the promised call back from TT today (no surprises there) so will indulge in one last round of correspondence with them to dispute the cancellation fee, before cancelling the contract and my direct debit - they'll have to sue me for it.

TalkTalk never call back - I know this from painful experience.

My advice to anyone having problems with them now is to send notices to them by post, preferably Special Delivery (as I guess in line with other CPW companies, their management has instructed the minions to bin anything not posted by a trackable service) - and if they owe you money, then add the cost of each letter to the total each time.

Shez

Oh no, am feeling worried now after reading this thread. We have just signed up with talk talk, the phone has been changed over but the broadband is due July.

is there anyone out there that has signed up and is pleased with the speed/deal yet?

I think its too late to back out now isnt it?

I am currently with wanadoo now orange, but the service/speed is not as good.

garibaldi8

Shez- maybe you would be reassured if you ask for your MAC from Orange right now - if it starts 'LLU...' then it is an LLU code, and you may have problems as I have had. But if it isn't, you should be fine.

Apparently the TT service is an LLU service so, from what you have said, steve, maybe they just couldn't migrate me.

Shez

garibaldi8 wrote:

Shez- maybe you would be reassured if you ask for your MAC from Orange right now - if it starts 'LLU...' then it is an LLU code, and you may have problems as I have had. But if it isn't, you should be fine.

Apparently the TT service is an LLU service so, from what you have said, steve, maybe they just couldn't migrate me.

thanks for that garibaldi8, yes i will contact orange and get it, but reading the other thread, cant seem to find anyone that is happy with the service yet - must try and stay positive though and hope it will be ok.

dastephens

Hi,



First of all i want to say thanks to garibald18 for highlighting the problem with MAc and LLU MAC.

Last Friday I signed you to talk talk phone/rental package with free broadband and after reading you thread yesterday I thought I had better telephone my current broadband provider Wanadoo to find out if LLu or not. They have confirmed that it is a LLU MAC and have just come off the telephone from Talk Talk after over an hour of waiting to be put through to the cancellation department.
I have now cancelled package with Talk Talk -this has saved me a lot of hassle - I will now be looking to go with a none LLU broadband provider with no contract and then maybe going to Talk Talk in the future (Might wait a free months to make sure good feedback on their broadband first !)

Debbie