help - problem with condensing boiler!

Ladybump

We've been having problems with our central heating since just before CHristmas. (Worcester Greenstar condensing boiler, about 7 years old). Heating kept cutting out and making terrible noise - we thought was fan. Called BG out and the guy said thought it was problem with condensate pipe being frozen (as it just had been left to drip outside and was not dug into sump pit or insulated). He serviced it but could find no problem. Heating did go back on but has subsequently been on for very brief periods of time and last few days barely at all. Dear hubby braved elements and fixed condensate pipe, insulated it, etc and we do have BG coming back tomorrow (hopefully). At the moment when we try to switch it back on at boiler, it makes a noise like a cow(!) or aeroplane taking off.... then after a few minutes stops. ANyone have any ideas what it might be? If it is because condensate pipe is still partially frozen is there anything we can do? Starting to think we could be weeks before a thaw here in Glasgow and with no hot water either, (showered at friends today) this is a nightmare! Thank you so much for your help!

albyota

just poached this from another forum...it might help......thanks Mr_Orange
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/bosch-worcester-information-t16015.html

Greenstar gas-fired boiler series and ‘26 CDi’ boilers

During the recent period of cold weather, we have experienced an increased number of enquiries from customers whose boiler condensate discharge pipe has frozen and prevented the boiler from operating.

The following information will assist you in identifying whether you have such an issue with your boiler and what should be done about it:
Flashing EA Code / Blue Slow Flashing Light

If you are currently without heating and hot water and your boiler is displaying an EA Code on its digital display, or it has a slow flashing blue light, then it is likely that that the boiler is not actually faulty, but simply that it has a frozen condensate trap/ discharge pipe.
What is a Condensate Trap / Discharge Pipe?

The Greenstar range of gas and oil boilers dispose of their condensate by means of a syphonic trap, which discharges a given quantity of condensate fluid at a time to the properties drainage system / pipe work.

The syphonic trap is important because if the condense fluid were allowed to drip continuously to the drain at the rate it was being produced, then there would be an increased risk of any externally run condense discharge pipe freezing.
What is Condensate?

Condensate is moisture gathered from the flue and allowed to run back through the boiler to a collection point.
Why might the condense trap/discharge pipe freeze?

Despite the syphonic trap flushing method, when the outside temperature is below freezing for a prolonged period of time, externally run discharge pipes, or discharge pipes run through a cold area of your property, (E.g. garage or loft) can freeze, particularly if they are not insulated, (lagged) or sized appropriately.
What will happen if my condense trap/discharge pipe has frozen?

The result of this would be the inability of the condensate to drain away, which would lead to the “backing up” of the condense, which in turn will cause the boiler to fail and go to lockout.

If this happens for a gas boiler, then the boiler will likely be showing an EA fault code, or alternatively it will show a flashing blue light and the boiler may be emitting a gurgling sound.
How can I identify if my condense trap/discharge pipe has frozen?

Step 1: Is your boiler a Greenstar Gas boiler, or a 26 CDI.

Step 2: The outside temperature is or has been below freezing

Step 3: An EA fault is showing, or the boiler has a slow flashing blue light

Step 4: You should now reset your boiler. This can be done by holding in the reset button, (this can be found on the boiler control panel) for 10 seconds. Once you have released the button you should wait 2 – 3 minutes to see if the boiler refires.

Step 5: If the boiler does not refire and it is emitting a gurgling sound, then it is almost certain that your condense is frozen. If you cannot hear a gurgling noise you should proceed to check your condense pipe.

Step 6: The condensate pipe will be a plastic pipe, (black/white/grey) coming from the bottom of your boiler. If this pipe is less than 32mm in diameter then it should be fully lagged, (insulated) with water proof lagging, if it runs outside of the property or through a non-heated area. If it is not fully lagged and the criteria above apply then it is likely that it is frozen and needs to be thawed.
How can I thaw my condensate pipe?

You should contact your installer in order to thaw the condensate and also in order to find a permanent solution to the freezing condensate problem.

If you are unable to contact you installer then please do the following:

* You should exercise extreme caution at all times when attempting to identify and thaw a condensate pipe.
* You should only attempt to thaw a condense pipe that it is at ground level and which is easily accessible to you. Under no circumstances should you attempt to thaw a condense pipe which is at height, without the assistance of a professionally trained engineer.
* A hot water bottle or wheat wrap would be a suitable and safe way of thawing the condense pipe.
* Once thawed the boiler must be reset. This can be done by holding the reset button in for 10 seconds and then waiting 2 – 3 minutes for the boiler to refire.
* If you are uncertain of what to do or require particular assistance then you could invite a neighbour/friend or family member to assist you. The person assisting you can, if required, contact the Technical Support Team (08705266241) for assistance.
* Once thawed you should still contact your installer in order to implement a permanent solution to the condense freezing.

What should I do if I have a different problem, or if following this advice has not worked?

Please contact our Customer Service team on 0845 725 6206.

Ladybump

Thank you for this!

markharding557

hi ladybump
you can defrost the pipe with a heat gun or hair dryer.
my dad did this on his recently.

Ladybump

Thanks all. BG came out and sawed off pipe hubbie had put into ground (!) saying this was what they were being advised to do. Did get heating going again, so we'll see what happens next.....

TORRENTO

I too have been caught out with this several times during the Xmas Hols.
Spoken to BG, and they referred me to this page.
BG informed me of a problem rate of 55% with Worcester Condensor boilers, and at the moment I am suggesting that it is the problem of the installer[BG] to seek a solution.
I am informed that Worcester now recommend Lagging the outlet condensate pipe, as a future upgrade...but until today I was not made aware of the need for a Syphonic trap...I will persue this with BG.
In my opinion, it would seem there is a basic oversight in design principal, in discharging the liquid condensate to outside cold environment.
Incidentally, during one of the Engineer visits, I was informed that this problem does not occur in Canada, as there, they do not use a water based condenser system.
In the interests of Safety, I believe that Worcester/BG should be more proactive, as I suspect the majority of such installations would not be at ground level, ....and Customers were definitely not advised of such problems at the date of installation.

Comments?

RealJC

I thought I'd share with you my experience with my Worcester boiler and its condensate pipe.

Had the boiler nearly four years, no problem. Then comes the current big freeze and tonight I get home to no power in the house. Odd thinks I, so switches everything back on at the consumer unit, goes back into the house to find a flooded kitchen and a considerable amount of water dripping from underneath the boiler.

Thought this was due to something in the boiler breaking, but in fact was due to how the condensate pipe is fitted, and the current cold snap. Whilst the condensate pipe itself is not frozen, the fall pipe to which the condensate pipe attaches is frozen at the bottom. This blockage caused any melt water, condensate and anything else in the pipe to back up the fall pipe, the condensate pipe and into the boiler. It proceeded to fill up the fan, heat exchanger, gas valve, the whole thing. It was this that tripped the electrics in the house. Right now I have a partly flooded kitchen and a bolier in bits overnight - will be a cold one for sure!

Folks, anyone who's condensate joins to another pipe please do check that it is not getting frozen up, otherwise you could an up with water backing into your boiler...

I have a feeling that this is a risk with any fall pipes that don't carry much waste (as with the offending one of mine), with the small amounts of condensate, plus a little melt water, building up frozen layers over time until it is blocked.

All the best,

RealJC

monkey_alan_2

been defrosting (putting warm water in) mine every day for the last week or so, it's not lagged but at the top i can pull the pipe away slightly, enough so that i can pour warm water through.

It has ice on it almost every morning.... i know that if i left it, it would back up and water would get in as it could not drain away.

i hope (think) im doing the right thing by doing this anyway!

Dave_save

My neighbour has just had a condensing boiler fitted by a 'Gas Safe' fitter, with around 10 m of white plastic uninsulated 22mm condensate pipe running along his side wall to reach his drain at the back of his house. I noticed this 'expert' was back today dismantling said pipe. With all the electronics in these boilers I wonder if the manufacturer's warranty will cover this when it goes kaput! I doubt it.

john175bramley

I had the same problem this morning. I poured warm water over the condensate pipe which was frozen solid (lots of ice came out) but still no luck. I then used a hair dryer to warm the section of pipe coming through the wall, this obviously loosened some more ice as water came gushing out of the pipe.

Boiler's working fine now.:j

macman

Ladybump wrote: »

Thanks all. BG came out and sawed off pipe hubbie had put into ground (!) saying this was what they were being advised to do. Did get heating going again, so we'll see what happens next.....

Why did hubbie put the pipe into the ground? It's supposed to discharge into a drain, or at least a soakaway. If you run it into the ground, and the ground is frozen, then it cannot discharge and will just back up to the boiler and cause an 'EA' error code as the safety system shuts it down.