Paypal closed claim without review all evidence

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Ebay, Auctions, Car Boot & Jumble Sales
11 replies 1.5K views
david64baileydavid64bailey Forumite
11 Posts
Hi,
I sold a ps3 on ebay and the buyer claimed that I had not supplied all the games advertised. I pointed out that only one game was advertised and that I had supplied that. He then claimed that the item was badly scratched which I disputed. A claim of significantly not as described was made which I again disputed. I offered Paypal a copy of a .avi video I had taken, their website would not upload .avi files, which I believe would have proven my side of the dispute. However, Paypal decided in favour of the buyer without obtaining and reviewing the video I had offered. Upon questioning the legality of their decision informing them of their own user agreement policy:
Disputes between Buyers and Sellers - Buyer Protection Programmes
13.3 What is Significantly Not as Described (SNAD)?
b An item is not Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) if it is materially similar to the seller’s description. Here are some non exhaustive examples:
The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition
My item was sold as an auction and clearly marked as used.
They informed me that:
The buyer was granted a "return with refund" decision in the claim, as PayPal determined that the item was significantly not as described. As stated in the user agreement, PayPal reserve the right to determine what constitutes an item being "significantly not as described".
Does Paypal have a legal obligation to base their decision on all the evidence offered and what Legal action can I take against them.

Thank you.
«1

Replies

  • cyberbobcyberbob Forumite
    9.5K Posts
    Paypal will base there decision on what was in your listing compared to the buyers complaint. Little confused what difference a video would make as it wont have anything to do with your original listing as you could have videod any Playstation so wont be able to prove its the one in the listing. If your listing had lots of good quality pictures showing no scratches where the buyer claims you could have an argument for an appeal but by the sounds of it you don't

    I'm no solicitor but I don't think legally you would have a leg to stand on. You could take whatever legal action you wanted but I very much doubt you would acheive much but waste money as you quoted yourself
    As stated in the user agreement, PayPal reserve the right to determine what constitutes an item being "significantly not as described".
  • Hi cyberbob,

    Paypal are willing to accept photographic evidence why would video evidence be any less reliable. Surely to determine what constitutes an item being SNAD requires them to look at the evidence presented to them before they dismiss it. I would have thought that setting yourself up as arbitrator requires you to abid within the law. I clearly stated this was used and sold it as an auction. Their own policy states

    b An item is not Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) if it is materially similar to the seller’s description. Here are some non exhaustive examples:
    The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition

    Are you saying that Paypal has no obligation to be legally fair and just.
  • edited 30 December 2009 at 9:36PM
    cyberbobcyberbob Forumite
    9.5K Posts
    edited 30 December 2009 at 9:36PM
    Are you saying that Paypal has no obligation to be legally fair and just.

    I'm confused about what law you think they have broken? They have abided by the terms and conditions you signed up for. Morally they may be wrong but I can't see which law of the land that they have broken. The only photographic evidence paypal really will look at is from a buyers perspective if an item is damaged in the post. For a seller defending a SNAD your main defence can only be your listing. From a sellers point of view they are incredibly difficult to defend against
    b An item is not Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) if it is materially similar to the seller’s description. Here are some non exhaustive examples:
    The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition
    Which by the sound of it is correct as the damage the buyer claims is not mentioned or photographed in your listing he may be saying major scratches i'm just guessing here (which is what I am assuming)

    I'm not saying its right or fair but its the way it works. It show the importance of a good listing. You can try all the legal action you want but I very much doubt it will come to much.
  • So paypal are under no legal obligation to be fair and just. How can they accept his word but dismiss mine surely that is prejudicial to me. The item was materially similar in description and was listed as used. The buyer also falsely claimed the item was being sold as new when I had clearly not made that claim.
  • Just thought Id update you on my problem. I asked Payal to put in writing what evidence they had used to make their decision along with information on the evicence the buyer submitted to verify his claim. This afternoon I received an e-mail from Paypal stating

    We have completed our review and have restored your account.

    They have refunded the full amount taken from my account. This just goes to show if you believe Paypal have made an unjust decision pursue it, all the way to the small claims court if necessary. They can not remove money from your account without good reason and must investigate any claim thoroughly. Although they have not appologised I will be gloating for some time to come.

    Happy New Year and heres hoping you persevere in your fight for whats right.
  • Humf_2Humf_2 Forumite
    273 Posts
    How can paypal take money from someone, give it to someone else, then change there mind and swap it back round ?????
    COMPETITIONS - 2010 Cushelle Koala, Shirt from Simply Colours, £10.00 Iceland Voucher, Grand Designs Live Tickets x4, Babee Pre-Paid Card, Wii Game, 7night's Holiday, Book x2, Bic Razor
  • DaveAshtonDaveAshton Forumite
    7.9K Posts
    Humf wrote: »
    How can paypal take money from someone, give it to someone else, then change there mind and swap it back round ?????
    Especially if the buyer had already returned the PS3. Then they've lost the item and the money.
    Back on MSE after a 5 year hiatus.

    :heart2: Rhi :heart2:
  • Humf_2Humf_2 Forumite
    273 Posts
    Oh well, did not know it got returned
    COMPETITIONS - 2010 Cushelle Koala, Shirt from Simply Colours, £10.00 Iceland Voucher, Grand Designs Live Tickets x4, Babee Pre-Paid Card, Wii Game, 7night's Holiday, Book x2, Bic Razor
  • Maybe they havent taken it back from the buyer. I feel Paypal were at fault for not investigating the matter properly, thats not the buyers fault.
  • cyberbobcyberbob Forumite
    9.5K Posts
    Maybe they havent taken it back from the buyer. I feel Paypal were at fault for not investigating the matter properly, thats not the buyers fault.

    Paypal wouldnt take the item from the buyer they would ask them to return it to you before any refund. As the buyer still has the item all they have done is review and reverse the decision and taken hold they put on funds off.

    I just hope the buyer hasn't already posted the item to you

    It can be argued that paypal have acted correctly they made a decision you disagreed they reinvestigated and changed the decision. They have followed all the protocols any buyer/seller can always appeal a decision if they dont agree with it
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