Why do we hate Unions? Look at BA...

Pete111

hillcats wrote: »

Oh really ! Being a member of the RMT for many years, I can tell you that we (Railway workers) would not have such good T&C's if it were not for the RMT union.

So unless you actually kow what you are talking about, then dont !

I don't think anyone is doubting the RMT's ability to get it's members good T&C's...quite frankly some of the T&C's for tube/train workers are way beyond what most sane people think reasonable for what is often (though not in all cases) semi-skilled labour.

However I personally do doubt the RMT's ability to give two hoots for the poor commuters who pay their members wages and whom they habitually abuse with their (often quite ridiculous) strike actions

Employees are now far better protected in the workplace than ever before (I see this first hand as I work with Employment law daily) and the historic need for unions to proctect workers is much reduced.

As such I think the orginal comment re unions having too much power and abusing it is entirely valid. That's basically the problem with unions, they often fail to see (or care about) the bigger picture even when this ultimately affects their members in a macro sense. We are seeing this with BA. This strike will likely lead to further cuts and the vicious death spiral of BA will resume unabaited.

Well done Unite. I'm sure your current members will thank you when they are on the dole next year.

kennyboy66_2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Can they not just fly without the cabin crew?

If it was a choice between not having my flight at all and having my flight sans warmed over bun and glass of caustic Shiraz, I think I'd take the latter.

Just go to Boots in the airport beforehands £3.99 meal deal with a drink and bobs your uncle.

Health and Safety mate !

Although on an internal flight in Oz last year (Jetstar) I was asked if I minded sitting by one of the emergency exits and opening it if necessary.:eek:

Was required to read a 1 page safety card.

Standard procedure on Jetstar apparently.

baileysbattlebus

Just thought I'd add my two penn'orth

I do agree with unions and the right to strike - even in a recession.

My feelings about BA management are that they must be a pretty spectacular team to turn an £800million+ profit into a £400million+ loss in 12 months.

Management decisions on fuel prices, price fixing and fuel surcharge tax fiddling have cost them dear.

The executives still got payrises this year - Willie Walsh got 5% took his pay from £701k to £735k plus £90k into his pension.

What BA management seem to want are the staff contracts - they want to tear them up and be able to do what they like (they seem uninterested in proposed cost savings of £50million+ being put forward) - imposition with no negotiation. Isn't Willie Walsh supposed to have said "a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations"

Having been at the receiving end of this during the last recession - it's not nice and yes our workforce had 2 choices - the 2nd choice was "you don't have to work here". This seems to be the general consensus on here too. It's not bad if the changes are minimal - but for us the changes were life changing - manufacturing being moved from day workers, nightshift workers and twilight shift workers (the contracts people had signed up to), to 12 hour shifts - 24/7 working - with no consultation and no representation. There was no union, we didn't need one because we worked for one the best companies in the world didn't we......

If you have a union you have a voice and representation - if you have no union you have management.

A family friend is a recently retired (early) senior captain - he retired because of BA management. I understand the feelings are along the lines of - staff have a lot of respect for middle management - but utter contempt for senior management.

At worst the airline could fold - and we could see one of 2 things happen -

1. a small logo change to VBA

2. the company split into 2
1. British European Airways
2. British Overseas Airways Corporation

ruggedtoast

@ Baileys

I agree with union representation and the right to strike. I know all too well what its like being restructured by senior management and how little they often care about employment law.

However, the decision to strike at such short notice, over Christmas was wrong. Its ruined Christmas for countless people for various reasons.

I was with a Spanish girl yesterday who is studying here - and has a BA flight back to Spain. She just found out that she wont be seeing her family after all, and was utterly devastated, in fact she looked physically sick.

Its quite difficult to remain sympathetic to the cause in the face of that.

BA staff could strike in the new year, the economic threat to BA would be just as big, without inflicting so much pain on the general public, of all nationalities.

BA staffs' union have managed to score an absolutely spectacular own goal here. No one is talking about the issues they are stiking about only that they are ruining peoples Christmasses at the end of a long year when many people justifiably deserve to have a nice one.

They have no support from anyone and must have been utterly insane to vote for this strike.

lostinrates

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I was with a Spanish girl yesterday who is studying here - and has a BA flight back to Spain. She just found out that she wont be seeing her family after all, and was utterly devastated, in fact she looked physically sick.

This is sad, as are all the other individual stories. What is happening about refunds?

I just checked easyjet, and for the sake of argument put london all airports to Barcelona, with flexible dates based around 22nd December to 4th January and flights are still available.

kriss_boy

35K seems like an exceptional amount of money for what they do, although they possibly work longer hours as a lot of the flights are 12+ hours on the bounce.

Either way I disagree with striking entirely- punishing others to save their own skins.

baileysbattlebus

ruggedtoast wrote: »

@ Baileys

I agree with union representation and the right to strike. I know all too well what its like being restructured by senior management and how little they often care about employment law.

However, the decision to strike at such short notice, over Christmas was wrong. Its ruined Christmas for countless people for various reasons.

I was with a Spanish girl yesterday who is studying here - and has a BA flight back to Spain. She just found out that she wont be seeing her family after all, and was utterly devastated, in fact she looked physically sick.

Its quite difficult to remain sympathetic to the cause in the face of that.

BA staff could strike in the new year, the economic threat to BA would be just as big, without inflicting so much pain on the general public, of all nationalities.

BA staffs' union have managed to score an absolutely spectacular own goal here. No one is talking about the issues they are stiking about only that they are ruining peoples Christmasses at the end of a long year when many people justifiably deserve to have a nice one.

They have no support from anyone and must have been utterly insane to vote for this strike.

I agree with you about the timing of the strike - but perhaps the union felt it had to do something particularly audacious to get management to the table? Did I hear today that management were going to talk?

After 12 months of "talks" it certainly didn't look as if the union was out for a strike.

Perhaps the union have scored a spectacular own goal - if they have it will serve them right.

I don't agree with the timing of the proposed strike - but I agree in principle with the right to strike.

I fly BA quite a lot - I like the staff - always been polite and helpful - on and off the plane. I don't mind paying a bit more for the service they provide. However, I may not be using them for much longer - not because of the proposed strike, but because of the some of the new charges being introduced - booking fees for seats - and a 1 bag allowance - no food on short flights after 10:00am - if I want a budget airline I want to pay budget airline prices.

BA management will probably be able to end BA on their own without any help from the unions.

Thrugelmir

Afriend wrote: »

lostinrates. You pretend to be very much whiter than white, preaching a higher set of morality and ethics.
However, when your favourite calls someone a **** you can't wait to thank them?
From the context it was used in, it was obviously not meant to mean cent.

Is your language really neccessary? The English language is full of colourful descriptive words.

vivatifosi

Breaking news:

Willie Walsh in meeting with Chairman of ACAS

The_White_Horse

put BA into administration and sack them all NOW.

these people are greedy grasping scum. If you don't like BA go and work for someone else.