Ace Internet. Any Other Victims?

Rex_Mundi

I'd love to know where you think you will go and get fairer terms than what you have been offered.

I've been with Zen Internet for a long time now. I've paid a lot more than others every month for a long time. In return, I've had a completely unrestricted service (with not one single slowdown since I joined a long time ago).

Zen were one of the last TRUE unlimited ISPs (look it up). Even they have realised that now it is not viable for an ISP to offer unlimted service.

When they offered me an upgrade to 8Mb (free) with a 50GB download limit (only download, not including upload). I looked at this and could see the downfulls. I stayed on my 2Mb completely unlimited connection (no capping on anything). Even now I get full speeds on everything I do, and I know that I can go over 300GB/400GB per month without a problem.

I would love to know where you think you will get this sort of service on the cheap. Even Zen have stopped offering this service to new customers.

atlantic_2

BexTech wrote:

All these problems are happening with all but one or two ISPs, it is BT Wholesales fault for changing the way they charge ISPs.

I know no one likes caps, but at least Ace's is pretty open and decent, 3.5GB per day if you go over you will be slowed down, look how many only have pathetic 2gb per MONTH caps or 5Gb etc.
Hardly think that is decent for £35 (£46 business) monthly and not open when they blamed it on the world cup

There isn't really anywhere else to go, as when everyone jumps ship and signs up with an ISP that offers unlimited downloads or a high cap per month, the same will happen to that ISP.

There are many cheaper Isp's offering bigger caps and at least you know what the cap is when you sign up.

Ace said their business plan allowed for a large increase in subscribers.They also said they would stop signing up new subscribers if they had problems.
These points appear to be untrue.

Fenris

It's not the cap I object to; it's the way it's being implimented. I signed up for an unlimited service from Ace as they specifically said that there was no throttling of P2P. On the day I was connected they started throttling! Is that fair? Is it the service I applied and PAID for? No.

If Ace had said they were bringing in a cap BEFORE I signed up, I would have thought long and hard, but seeing it was 100gb, I probably still would have signed up. The fact that they only bought it in after I (and many others) signed up just goes to show what Ace are like.

Even now, after yesterdays news, if Ace had said, "We're giving you 100gb per month allowance, use it when you like but don't go over it in a month." again, fine. But to be told you can only use 3.5gb per day is just madness! And before anyone else jumps on the, "It won't stop, just slow down" band-wagon, say you reached your 3.5gb allowance at middday, but you needed that file that evening. What're the chances of finishing it in time when you're downloading at 5Kb/s?

As Atlantic rightly said, there are many other providers who have the good grace (and sense!) to forewarn their potential new customers of their caps. I'd rather Ace have done that than my now being forced to look for another ISP. At the end of the day, they've cut of their nose to spite their face. There are people on other forums who've been very loyal to Ace. I can see why so many of them now feel like they've been cheated; I know I do and I've only been with them a matter of days. Some will stay, but after yesterdays e-mail from Ace I suspect that many more will leave ASAP. And it's a shame because before all this mess Ace were a well respected ISP. Now they're only going to be seen as cheats and fraudsters. They'll be lumped with Tiscali et al and that's certainly nothing for Ace to be proud of...

BexTech

But they didn't know, they are just resellers, they didn't know until after it happened, they have done their best of a bad situation as the company is trying to sort it out, most of this is out of their hands.

Fenris

BexTech wrote:

But they didn't know, they are just resellers, they didn't know until after it happened, they have done their best of a bad situation as the company is trying to sort it out, most of this is out of their hands.

Well, you're entitled to believe that. But, no matter what you say, I signed a contract with ACE; not Mistral, not BT. ACE. They knew what was coming. Even you yourself have pointed out that all ISPs who offer unlimited know that, at some point in the future their policy will need looking at. Ace could have stoped this before it started, but they sat back on their lorals watching the cash roll in and then, suddenly, it all blew up in thir faces.

At the end of the day, no matter how hard you try and blame BT (this seems to be a common theme amongst Ace (or any other ISP, in fact) advocates, "It's not Ace, it's BT. BT're doing this, BT are doing that." If that's so, how come the umpteen-dozen other ISPs aren't suddenly holding crisis meetings and implimenting "emergancy procedures"? Probably because they're run by people with a modicum of foresight...) I, and others in the same boat, didn't sign a contract with BT, or Mistal. We signed a contract with Ace. And it's THEIR, not BT's, responsibility to provide the service for which we pay.

I can accept a hitch here and there, but a complete change to the service I signed up for; a service I contracted Ace to provide? No. Unacceptable.

Most ISPs are resellers of BT Wholesale, as far as I understand it (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!), so all this rubbish about thw World Cup clogging up the service is, to use Mr Fry's words, complete !!!!!! gravy. Several other people on several other forums who have their service provided by several other resellers are clearly stating that the World Cup isn't affecting their service.

Besides which, unless I've suddenly gone stark raving mad, the football isn't on 24/7. Even if people ARE watching it on ther PC's (at work or at home), they're only watching for, what, 2 hours at most. So what're Ace/Mistral doing throttling for the other 22 hours of the day? Makes no reasonable, or logical sense. It's just one big excuse to introduce throttling/caping.

BexTech

Look at TalkTalk and Tiscali they have always been extremely poor, and they have been going for sometime, TalkTalk because they launched about 18 months back without adequate infrastructure and now with the problems with BT Wholesale.

I was with Pipex and they were an excellent ISP, but when BT changed the way they charge, the business model fell apart.

Previously BT charged ISPs a set amount for the speed service you were on, so if you were on a 512Kbit service BT charged the ISP one flat rate per month, if you were on 1Mbit they charged a slightly higher flat monthly rate.

Then all of a sudden BT dropped the different rates for different speeds and have just one rate and that is a cost per mb you download, so the more you download the more the ISP has to pay.

Many ISP decided the only way to ensure they didn't go bust was to cap and traffic shape the service.

PlusNet was another one, was always recommended, now they cap and traffic shape.

Yes, most ISPs use the BT Wholesale service and this is what is causing the problem, because ISPs have to now pay for data downloaded and not a flat rate, the only way ISPs can survive is if they increase the cost of the service to reflect the costs involved, or restrict the amount someone can download.

2 hours of streaming video uses a lot of data, and if everyone tries and streams at the same time the internet will and does fall over.

ISPs (such as TalkTalk's free broadband) are trying to get LLU equipment in the exchanges, so they don't have to depend on BT Wholesale, but it's waiting for BT to get it sorted, plus they need to make sure that not too many people want to stream video/audio or max out downloads at the same time, as about 20 - 50 people share a connection, it's a balancing act, for fewer numbers sharing the more pipes they need and the higher the cost.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it really is BT fault and the problem of too many people maxing out their connection at the same time.

I was on TalkTalk for a couple of months and that was bad, I was on Pipex before and after, they were great until BT screwed everyone up.

I am now with Telewest who have no restrictions, but if everyone takes the Micky there will come a point when they will have to restrict access too, just like BT.

I don't like what is going on either, but honestly Ace Internet (who I've never used) really do have their hands tied at the moment.

Because of the change in pricing you have to decide do you want free/cheap broadband and therefore caps and restrictions, or do you want an unrestricted service and pay the going (now higher) rate.

When BT Wholesale did change the pricing structure then I do believe that Ace should have then changed their service to new customers, as yes they must have known they couldn't sustain it that long, or just never realised too many people would be downloading too much.

BexTech

Rex_Mundi wrote:

I'd love to know where you think you will go and get fairer terms than what you have been offered.

I've been with Zen Internet for a long time now. I've paid a lot more than others every month for a long time. In return, I've had a completely unrestricted service (with not one single slowdown since I joined a long time ago).

Zen were one of the last TRUE unlimited ISPs (look it up). Even they have realised that now it is not viable for an ISP to offer unlimted service.

When they offered me an upgrade to 8Mb (free) with a 50GB download limit (only download, not including upload). I looked at this and could see the downfulls. I stayed on my 2Mb completely unlimited connection (no capping on anything). Even now I get full speeds on everything I do, and I know that I can go over 300GB/400GB per month without a problem.

I would love to know where you think you will get this sort of service on the cheap. Even Zen have stopped offering this service to new customers.

I fully agree, I chose Pipex some years back because they were a truely unlimited service, but just like Zen when BT changed the pricing there was no way they could sustain the service for the price they were asking.

normanmark

BexTech wrote:

ISPs (such as TalkTalk's free broadband) are trying to get LLU equipment in the exchanges, so they don't have to depend on BT Wholesale, but it's waiting for BT to get it sorted, plus they need to make sure that not too many people want to stream video/audio or max out downloads at the same time, as about 20 - 50 people share a connection, it's a balancing act, for fewer numbers sharing the more pipes they need and the higher the cost.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it really is BT fault and the problem of too many people maxing out their connection at the same time.

you really have no clue whatsoever. The reason why Talk talk cant get on their LLU is because they arent prepared to pay the same as every other isp to take over unbundled shared mpf lines. Nothing at all to a BT Issue. They have a flat rate of shared MPF lines & because talk talk wanted to bulk migrate thousands they wanted it at a reduced rate.

Simple really. And with regards to bandwidth, why should Wholesale foot the bill for bandwidth? Makes perfect business sense to charge the ISP's for what they use. Its up to the ISP what policies they want to enforce.

BexTech

Thanks for your kind comment, nice to see people on here have such intelligence to use manners, my it does make you look so superior!!!

I think I should know, what's going on, it's my job too.

Yes, CPW wanted to get BT to slash their prices to £20 and went running to OFCOM, and the price had dropped to around £27 which is slightly better than it was.

But BT have been lagging behind on switching people to LLU providers, and have several times got their knuckles rapped, granted I should have used a different ISP in the example of those switching people to LLU, as it is only recently they have started to switch people over many not getting switched until around august time, due to TalkTalk wanting to find out if OFCOM would come down infavour of them in getting the costs down.

Yes, ISPs probably should be charged for what people use, but that was never always the case, it is wrong to suddenly force ISPs to pay for bandwidth when they were originally playing a flat rate based on speed, though I think for many they would rather pay a flat rate based on speed.

As yeah, 8Mbit, 16Mbit or 24Mbit maybe great speeds, but whats the point of those speeds if you have a stupid cap or get shaped, viewing a web-page displays in half a second instead of 1 second - great.

Brush up on your communications skills before you mouth off!

normanmark

BexTech wrote:

Thanks for your kind comment, nice to see people on here have such intelligence to use manners, my it does make you look so superior!!!

I think I should know, what's going on, it's my job too.

Yes, CPW wanted to get BT to slash their prices to £20 and went running to OFCOM, and the price had dropped to around £27 which is slightly better than it was.

But BT have been lagging behind on switching people to LLU providers, and have several times got their knuckles rapped, granted I should have used a different ISP in the example of those switching people to LLU, as it is only recently they have started to switch people over many not getting switched until around august time, due to TalkTalk wanting to find out if OFCOM would come down infavour of them in getting the costs down.

Yes, ISPs probably should be charged for what people use, but that was never always the case, it is wrong to suddenly force ISPs to pay for bandwidth when they were originally playing a flat rate based on speed, though I think for many they would rather pay a flat rate based on speed.

As yeah, 8Mbit, 16Mbit or 24Mbit maybe great speeds, but whats the point of those speeds if you have a stupid cap or get shaped, viewing a web-page displays in half a second instead of 1 second - great.

Brush up on your communications skills before you mouth off!

Sorry but if you're spouting off complete rubbish to people i dont seem to have a lot of paitence when replying.

brush up on my communication skills? well you understood my points very clearly then judging by your reply.

who do you work for if its your job?

The LLU switch over is something that BT have suggested & are implementing with the whole Review thats going to be implemented. So its a case of, they'll do it in their own time. Having said that half the ISP's have absolutely no idea whatsoever with regards to LLU yet, companies left right & centre are quick enough to put customers on their shared mpf network, but to remove them? different ball game altogether. Seems the only company that can do anything with the engineering aspect is BT (well open reach as they're now known).

The whole LLU ideas are good in practice. However the ISP's that want to use such systems simply havent a clue how to run it yet.

Said it all really after i called Wandoo for a family friend only the other week, finding out the day she had an order placed to cease her broadband, Wanadoo had put her on an LLU Shared MPF line - why when shes ceased her service? Upon further discussion with Ofcom & a Wholesale Helpdesk this is a regular occurance!!!

The best bit was yet to come, after being told it's property of Wanadoo, i rang Wanadoo's cancellations, their reply...... 'Sorry we dont have the LLU training yet so we cant assist in your cancellation' :rotfl:

They're quick enough to offer the LLU product, but support for that LLU product? Seems no one has a clue (Bar Wholesale)