why is there so much hostility towards trades unions here?

C_Mababejive

abaxas wrote: »

People hate unions as they do not create wealth, they]

No no...workers create wealth. working in partnership with their employers.

Thats why employers employ them.

Employers are not philanthropic societies and in turn,they seek to maximise the income from each employee. Often they do this illegally or at the very margins of the law.

Unions try to prevent this from happening.

They also ensure that workers have a fair share of the wealth which they have helped to create.

Thrugelmir

kennyboy66 wrote: »

If unions are inherently evil as so many posters seem to believe, why was Germany so sucessful post war in creating a highly productive manufacturing economy.

They also had strong unions (although the numbers in unions in Germany are considerably diminished).

What about unions in places like Toyota (Derby) and Nissan (Sunderland) or Honda (Swindon), where despite all the car-industry problems these plants are amongst the most productive in Europe.

It requires a "certain" mentality to work at Honda ( no personal experience just relayed information) in any capacity. Staff are treated well if they perform well.

In the finance department though as an example. They have to be flexible. On any working day, they can be told up till 1pm that they are required to work extra hours that same evening. Not everyones choice.

Generali

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Indeed..heady days...but who is worse? Thousands of ordinary hard working men who did a very dangerous job,hundreds of feet under the ground. Honest sweat,black skin,lung disease,bringing home an honest hard won days pay to their families..simply trying to defend their industry and way of life..

Or


The country, HM government and every single one of us being held to ransom by the curious and devious machinations of bankers who have wrecked the UK economy,escaped with the profits,have blackmailed HM government into bailing them out with an open chequebook AND,wait for it,every single one of us will pay the price now and for the next two decades whilst the champagne charlies live the high life.

Which situation has more honesty and justice about it?

Ordinary working people are just that. They largely know their place and only strike or take dramatic action as an action of last resort. any why? becuase it is the only course of action left open to them.

The economy of this country is now built on foundations about as solid as those which threaten Venice.

We now have to import gas and coal to burn as a primary fuel for our homes or to shovel into power stations.

The choice isn't either or though is it. It's just that successive Labour Governments made very poor decisions.

C_Mababejive wrote: »

abaxas wrote: »

People hate unions as they do not create wealth, they]

No no...workers create wealth. working in partnership with their employers.

Thats why employers employ them.

Employers are not philanthropic societies and in turn,they seek to maximise the income from each employee. Often they do this illegally or at the very margins of the law.

Unions try to prevent this from happening.

They also ensure that workers have a fair share of the wealth which they have helped to create.

British ones don't stop there though - look at the situation at BA. Look at how they brought the country to the brink of bankruptcy in the 1970s and then called what amounted to a General Strike to demand even more!

Generali

kennyboy66 wrote: »

If unions are inherently evil as so many posters seem to believe, why was Germany so sucessful post war in creating a highly productive manufacturing economy.

They also had strong unions (although the numbers in unions in Germany are considerably diminished).

What about unions in places like Toyota (Derby) and Nissan (Sunderland) or Honda (Swindon), where despite all the car-industry problems these plants are amongst the most productive in Europe.

It's not that Trade Unions are inherently bad, it's just that many of the British trade unions seem to have a venal streak rarely seen outside Whitehall and the Square Mile.

lemonjelly

Generali wrote: »

It's not that Trade Unions are inherently bad, it's just that many of the British trade unions seem to have a venal streak rarely seen outside Whitehall and the Square Mile.

With all due respect generali, there are large portions of the population who would argue that those inside whitehall/the square mile fail to look outside it...

bambam101

If it wasn't for the trade union movement in this country, then the working conditions of millions of people would be dire, they are one of the finest institutions to come out of the UK. All the over reacting talk that they should be banned etc, you look at the majority of the problems that people are effected by on MSE and its all to do with the banking industry, people being over charged for overdrafts, the credit crunch, badly performing savings accounts and pensions, none of it is to do with strike action or the so called union barons. All this talk that unions are still a problem is just lazy knee jerk debating.

torontoboy45

kennyboy66 wrote: »

If unions are inherently evil as so many posters seem to believe, why was Germany so sucessful post war in creating a highly productive manufacturing economy.

They also had strong unions (although the numbers in unions in Germany are considerably diminished).

What about unions in places like Toyota (Derby) and Nissan (Sunderland) or Honda (Swindon), where despite all the car-industry problems these plants are amongst the most productive in Europe.

the french economy seems to be holding up pretty well too, despite the raving militant berets always walking out at the drop of a hat.
unions?strikes? it just not british!

maybe my OP wasn't such a bad idea, after all. it's given something of an insight; it's a mystery as to why some people treat their friends/family decently, behave well to their neighbours, give money to charity and hate animal cruelty immediately forget these personal qualities the minute they walk into the workplace.

I don't hang out with the brothers and sisters of other TU's, so I haven't got a take on what goes on elsewhere. the no. of posts discussing the poor quality of repping is surprising.

so I can consider myself lucky to belong to a well-run, well-organised TU.
it offers me the protection of no.s whenever a cretinous low-life with a 'master and servant' mentality squirms his way into a management role and immediately demonstrates his unsuitability; maybe thoughts should be turned to the dire quality of british business management (at all levels).

StevieJ

bambam101 wrote: »

If it wasn't for the trade union movement in this country, then the working conditions of millions of people would be dire, they are one of the finest institutions to come out of the UK. All the over reacting talk that they should be banned etc, you look at the majority of the problems that people are effected by on MSE and its all to do with the banking industry, people being over charged for overdrafts, the credit crunch, badly performing savings accounts and pensions, none of it is to do with strike action or the so called union barons. All this talk that unions are still a problem is just lazy knee jerk debating.

It does seem strange that a severe problem directly caused by the excesses of private sector organisations and their management results in public sector/union bashing

vivatifosi

I know that there are massive differences between unions, but one thing I really don't like is the raising of political funds through them. Given that the government is short of money right now, I'd start by cutting it funding websites such as this, which tells trade unions how to set up political funds. These are for the most part are going to fund which party exactly? Oh yes, the one in power, with the budgets to pay for this..

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/employment/employment-legislation/employment-guidance/page17195.html

donaldtramp

StevieJ wrote: »

It does seem strange that a severe problem directly caused by the excesses of private sector organisations and their management results in public sector/union bashing

The banking sector isn't the "direct" cause of Britains problems. The way it has been run over the last decade has a great deal to do with it.
The cuirrent governments willingness to live of "tax and give away" politics has failed.
They were more than happy to allow the banks to provide tax receipts for them with little regulation.
They could then splurge this money on benefits, "entitlements", and a massively bloated public sector.

Nope all you are seeing is the bog standard end of a failed socialist government.
It happens every time and yet every 20 years or so the population falls for their "equality" and handouts nonsense.
Even still they are failing to face up to the mess we are in and have increased benefits and failed to make any cuts until AFTER the next election.
They are an absolute disgrace and getting us into an even bigger hole that we should be tackling as soon as possible. Not putting it off for the next "nasty" government.