why is there so much hostility towards trades unions here?

torontoboy45

I can well understand why people throw hissy fits when the subject is raised in the context of 1978/winter of discontent/red robbo/scargill but there seems to be a deep streak of hostility whenever TU's of the 21st c. get a mention.

I've been a TU member for over 30yrs. it's a responsible, democratic union which seeks to avoid disputes wherever possible and has rarely balloted for action over pay; mostly, the sabre-rattling starts when a newly-appointed manager acts in an unfair/unreasonable way towards staff or imagines agreed procedures are there to be ignored. this usually gives the effect of placing a lid on workplace bullying. is there anything so wrong in that?

it offers representation at disciplinary hearings, where it is regularly discovered that the responsible manager failed to observe conditions of employment or took a wrong decision.

when I joined the tu back in the 70's it was clear that the movement as a whole was being guided by elements working to a political agenda. without secret balloting it was undemocratic and given the antics of the leadership, unrepresentative.

times have changed. employment laws limit TU activity and the movement no longer poses the threat to the economy it once did. it reconnected with its membership yrs ago. but still it gets the rough treatment from most of the press and some on here.

why is that?

Generali

Because people remember the 1960s & 70s and how appalling things were IMO.

My dad used to turn up to a print works in Fleet Street in the 1960s in the early evening. All but one would go to the pub.

A couple of times a month (max) they'd be called back (drunk) because the machines jammed. The machines used to jam because the unions wouldn't let the print companies buy new ones!

Jennifer_Jane

Which is your TU? I was in Amicus/Unite and my view was that the local rep was wonderful, very helpful, and I would advise everyone to be a union member.

My point is that TU bosses are just as much power-hungry, overpaid, fat cats as the Bankers, and may even be just as greedy. They earn huge amounts.

In addition, if you are on the mailing list, you are bombarded with exhortations to support various people all of whom are better off than I am.

In general the Union individual I was involved with was wonderful, but the Union itself did nothing to boost salaries/terms & conditions etc. Compare the UK TUs with, say, Swedish (of course do not compare them with the US!) and ours appear to be fairly toothless, if not lazy.

Jen

Thrugelmir

torontoboy45 wrote: »

I can well understand why people throw hissy fits when the subject is raised in the context of 1978/winter of discontent/red robbo/scargill but there seems to be a deep streak of hostility whenever TU's of the 21st c. get a mention.

I've been a TU member for over 30yrs. it's a responsible, democratic union which seeks to avoid disputes wherever possible and has rarely balloted for action over pay; mostly, the sabre-rattling starts when a newly-appointed manager acts in an unfair/unreasonable way towards staff or imagines agreed procedures are there to be ignored. this usually gives the effect of placing a lid on workplace bullying. is there anything so wrong in that?

it offers representation at disciplinary hearings, where it is regularly discovered that the responsible manager failed to observe conditions of employment or took a wrong decision.

when I joined the tu back in the 70's it was clear that the movement as a whole was being guided by elements working to a political agenda. without secret balloting it was undemocratic and given the antics of the leadership, unrepresentative.

times have changed. employment laws limit TU activity and the movement no longer poses the threat to the economy it once did. it reconnected with its membership yrs ago. but still it gets the rough treatment from most of the press and some on here.

why is that?

The roots of the trade union movement are at a disconnect with the world we live and work in, in the main.

H&S, Employment Law etc have made many roles that the Unions performed obsolete.

My partner deals with Union Reps at work related employment hearings. She says that the majority are ill prepared, ill informed and a waste of space. When they are present to assist an employee with their rights.

ruggedtoast

My local TU is just a bit ineffective. I think they're starting to feel a bit beaten down by all the redundancies, a lot of the senior union people took voluntary and theres a bit of a power vacuum.

I'm not sure people hate unions, some of them are atrocious on local level however and individual union reps can be very difficult. Sometimes they tend to be people who failed to progress much within their organisation so take on Union work - but have a bit of an agenda of their own.

I do know once case where management of one charity offered, out of the blue and as a goodwill gesture to their staff (who have a horrible job working with very disturbed people) , a very generous offer that all bank holiday weekends would be made into 4 days on full pay.

i.e if you have Monday off you can also get Friday. The union managed to turn this altruistic gesture into an acrimonious dispute about what happens over annual leave, what about part timers, people on sick leave, we demand our members rights to equality etc.

Until management eventually told them to stick it and withdrew the offer. As they only represent 30% of the workforce they didnt win themselves much goodwill. So yeah, some are just unreasonable.

torontoboy45

Generali wrote: »

Because people remember the 1960s & 70s and how appalling things were IMO.

My dad used to turn up to a print works in Fleet Street in the 1960s in the early evening. All but one would go to the pub.

A couple of times a month (max) they'd be called back (drunk) because the machines jammed. The machines used to jam because the unions wouldn't let the print companies buy new ones!

this proves the point that memories of 60's/70's militancy still colour the view.
the days of the bigmouth hotheads driving the agenda are long gone, along with the spanish practices you mention.

the_ash_and_the_oak

People identify more with employers than employees (is a natural consequence of a diffuse working class imo)

The_White_Horse

because they are hateful money grabbing scum who want nothing but pay increases, and don't care where the money comes from, even if there isn't any. They bring chaos to the working man with their strikes.

They have no place in a modern society. they should be outlawed.

ses6jwg

The_White_Horse wrote: »

because they are hateful money grabbing scum who want nothing but pay increases, and don't care where the money comes from, even if there isn't any. They bring chaos to the working man with their strikes.

They have no place in a modern society. they should be outlawed.

The fascist troll strikes again.

What a ridiculous thing calling for them to be banned.

Ordinary men fought and died for the right to belong to a trade union.

However I do have a fairly negative opinion of them. They prevent modernisation (Royal Mail) and fail to see the bigger picture.

But I dont have the self-important audacity to call for a ban on them.

ILW

Bob crowe!

Quizzical_Squirrel

The_White_Horse wrote: »

They have no place in a modern society. they should be outlawed.

We wouldn't have a modern society without trade unions.

We'd still be serfs.