why is there so much hostility towards trades unions here?

Thrugelmir

ses6jwg wrote: »

Trade unions should act as a back stop for when employers (and yes they do) exploit their employees and break the law. Without trade unions many employees lack the resources to take their cases forwards even where there is a clear breach on behalf of the employer.

There's plenty of no win no fee legal advice available.

Companies will often settle for a sum, then spend time and money arguing a matter they could win at an industrial tribunal.

I've been involved in cases where the cost has risen into five figures (for the employer), for an industrial tribunal to find against the employee. There's no recourse for the Company to recover its costs.

movingforward2010

lmao the white horse makes me laugh, trolls often do, because no one could ever be so bitter and negative all the time. or could they

Zelie

torontoboy45 wrote: »

this proves the point that memories of 60's/70's militancy still colour the view.
the days of the bigmouth hotheads driving the agenda are long gone, along with the spanish practices you mention.

I think this is accurate. Plus a lot of the time people only listen to those who are mouthing off. In my industry there are around four unions which work with various groups but whenever anyone mentions us and unions they always reference the loudmouth in the baseball cap who runs one of them.

There's also an issue that a lot of people don't have access to unions for one reason or another. This leads to case of haves and have-nots with the have-nots expressing resentment for the haves. It's not the fault of the unionised people that the have-nots get a rough deal but it's often presented as such. In reality the employers are happy to demonise one group as an excuse for not giving decent pay and conditions to another. There's another thread asking me to justify why I (supposedly) get paid more than a soldier. The real question is, why do we not value soldiers properly and give them a decent wage regardless of what everyone else gets?

donaldtramp

Trade unions whole mission is to drag everyone down to the lowest denominator.
They "protect" jobs by strangling companies to protect employees from the inevitable march of technology and change in society. This leads to companies closing down, EVERYBODY losing their jobs and Britain as a whole suffering.
Look at British Leyland (everyone was on strike almost all day every day), The Post Office standing up for outdated working practices that should have gone in the seventies, holding back installation of new equipment that would allow the Royal mail to compete in the modern world.
In the private sector where I work, NOBODY is a member of a union. If you don't like the job/pay/conditions YOU have to do something about it rather than holding people/our country to ransom.
Unions are determined to hold back change and improvement in our society by force and this government has cowed down to them for too long.
If everyone went out and did their job the very best they could and didn't complain about what they didn't have and entitlements they weren't getting, Britain would be a better place.
As for the unions being democratic, don't make me laugh. It's the only place where communists and people with pictures of Lenin rise to the top. For example Bob Crowe.

adr0ck

one important point - some unions stop their members getting jobs by not allowing them to take a pay cut when they would be perfectly happy to take one (if it meant actually getting a job) - this is going on with the teachers union quite a bit at the moment

Wookster

Union actions at BA, Royal Mail and the London Underground in recent times show the utter disconnect between Unions and the real world.

They don't understand that there is a market, with real alternatives (aside of the Tube) and that by striking they are destroying the chances of the people they claim to represent.

A mate of mine at BA says the cabin crew are striking so that they can go and work with Ryan Air after BA goes bust :rotfl:

KTM_Gordo

ILW wrote: »

Bob Crowe!

Couldn't have put it better myself!

I'm not against unions per se, they perform a very useful role especially in terms of employee welfare with advice and support in times of trouble, but often they display such an amazingly ignorant view of the world that it's difficult to take them seriously.

Mr Crowe is perhaps the best example of the type, harping on about how the privatised railways don't work when quite plainly they do work, and are miles better than how it was in the "good old days' of state neglect.

Another example was one of the unions at London Underground demanding a decent pay-rise in line with inflation. Some brief research would have shown inflation to be around -1.4% at the time so in effect they were demanding a pay-cut :rolleyes2.

Geoffo_M

There is a vast difference between a private sector union and a public sector union. By and large, private sector unions are very ineffective & bosses generally walk all over them. Contrast that to the public sector where they get the whip hand over the government every time. Look at the pathetic attempt to modernise public sector pensions, where government ducked all responsibilty. I think it's part of the reason the public sector has grown so large - and appears out of control. Easy also to understand how public sector pay has overtaken private sector. All very depressing - unless, of course, you happen to work in the public sector, where one in three of us do. But the taxpayer, overall, gets a very raw deal.

bristol_pilot

The short answer I think is because the public have long memories. Red Robbo, British Leyland...the closed shop...the days when the employer couldn't sack anyone but the union could. The UK nearly went down the pan in the 1970s. And I say that as someone who is a member of a (thankfully, modern) union.

StevieJ

bristol_pilot wrote: »

The short answer I think is because the public have long memories. Red Robbo, British Leyland...the closed shop...the days when the employer couldn't sack anyone but the union could. The UK nearly went down the pan in the 1970s. And I say that as someone who is a member of a (thankfully, modern) union.

And the next minute they they are claiming how rubbish wages and conditions are now compared to the past