how can I say "No" without the guilt?

northern_star

gk172 wrote:

What about suggesting that the older one goes into playgroup or nursery to mix with other kids? and that would give the little one more structure if it was say 3 mornings a week?

Were does your daughter in law go when you have the kids? Or what does she do? maybe she asks you to watch them and goes home and does housework kid free? or shopping? If i had an easy option of my mil for a hour or 2 to get on with things in the house i would possibly take it maybe once a week.

The 3 year old will qualify for a free nursery place in September. Currently he is booked in to a private nursery one day a week (which DIL's mum pays for) from 8am - 5.30pm. Sometimes though, despite the fact that this nursery is a 2 minute walk from their house and paid for by someone else, DIL doesn't bother to get him there on time or takes him and then gets someone else to pick him up and have him for a while.

If she was using the time constructively it would seem a little better but she finds someone to take the boys and then goes off shopping (and not the supermarket kind) or for her hair done or goes home to watch daytime tv or calls on another friend and sits at their house or goes to the pub with them.

She seems to believe herself above the mundane tasks that the rest of us have to get on with. 'Housework' is a dirty word (yes, I hate it aswell but it has to be done) and washing is left to pile up to unbelievable amounts (I used to bring some to mine after each visit 'cos I couldn't bear to see it all over the floors but I've stopped that now). Instead of washing and ironing she'll go out and spend on new clothes (all on cc, which they can't afford).

I've noticed that if she senses my reluctance to help, she claims to feel unwell and say she needs to go home to bed.

Gosh, I hadn't realised how bad things are until I've started to write it down!

Thriftylady

I think what you are experiencing must be quite common. I am expecting my first baby and as soon as I announced I was pregnant, friends and colleagues immediately assumed that my parents or parents in law would look after baby for me while I get back to work and on with my life. I've been really shocked by how much other people my age expect their parents to help out. I wouldn't dream of asking them for ongoing help, they are all retired and worked hard raising their own families, why should they raise mine too? I was really shocked recently when a friend complained to me that her parents in law wouldn't take their fair share of responsibility for her son, in the sense that they won't look after him while she works. I was so close to telling her that her son is no ones responsibility except hers and her husbands, but thought it better to keep my mouth shut, or I might find myself with one less friend. I don't think her view is unusual though....

northern_star

Thriftylady wrote:

I think what you are experiencing must be quite common. I am expecting my first baby and as soon as I announced I was pregnant, friends and colleagues immediately assumed that my parents or parents in law would look after baby for me while I get back to work and on with my life. I've been really shocked by how much other people my age expect their parents to help out. I wouldn't dream of asking them for ongoing help, they are all retired and worked hard raising their own families, why should they raise mine too? I was really shocked recently when a friend complained to me that her parents in law wouldn't take their fair share of responsibility for her son, in the sense that they won't look after him while she works. I was so close to telling her that her son is no ones responsibility except hers and her husbands, but thought it better to keep my mouth shut, or I might find myself with one less friend. I don't think her view is unusual though....

Perhaps it's simply a 'generational' thing (I hadn't considered this). DIL does seem to 'expect' people to mind the boys at her request almost as if they have a duty to comply with her wishes.

I raised 4 children - for the most part single-handedly -and there was no concept of others having a 'duty' to look after them. Of course from time to time people did and I was grateful for the change it gave the children as well as myself but there was never an 'expectation'.

I think some ground rules might be a good idea but i'll need to tread very carefully.............

plumpmouse

Hi

We're now experiencing the complete opposite. Last night my son 2 1/2 stayed at his grandparents for the first time ever. At 10 we got called home from a night out as there was no chance of him settling. We see grandparents regularly but he isn't left often. And when he is only for less than an hour a time. He does go to nursery 2 days while I work, but I do feel I never have time alone.

With regards to your DIL why not try to help her discover fun things to do. We have a busy life. On a normal week we do as follows

Monday: See grandad, go swimming and food shopping
Tues: Go to a soft play area with a couple of friends and their children
Wed: Go to a farm or playground
Thurs: Nursery
Fri: Nursery
Sat and sun stay at home and play or go for walks in the country which he loves. We have a field nearby which is full of sheep and he loves it.

In between all this we bake, read, play games, paint etc

I'm not saying I'm perfect far from it. I find it hard and often say I go to work for a rest.

However i do find it far easier to be out and about with him than stuck in doors

Have a look her for places near you
http://www.netmums.com/lc/placestogo.php

http://www.daysoutuk.com/

Maybe if you went with her to places for the first time and encouraged her to just enjoy her sons she will see that it can be a lot of fun.

I hope things work otu for you all. PM if you ever want

plumpmouse

Just noticed your from Yorkshire

Not sure if it is anywhere near you but this is the farm we go to

http://www.heskethfarmpark.co.uk/

It is brilliant

http://www.ukattraction.com/yorkshire/

http://www.yorkshirevisitor.com/

Has she no other friends with children that she could ask to go out for days either

ruthyjo

My husband's brother is divorced. On the weekends he has his three children he always dumps them straight round his parents' house and either hangs around there himself ignoring the children or just takes off. The weekends his ex-wife has them thay also get dumped at their paternal grandparents for at least one of the two days becasue she needs time to herself.

It causes real family issues. My PILs have three young foster children and can't really cope with another three children being foisted on them. Their other fourteen grandchildren (it's a big catholic family!) can never visit at weekends as the house is already full of children and this causes upset for all their other children and grandchildren.

I had the eldest of the three children to stay at half term. He's nine and I have boys of ten and nine so he had a great time with us - cinema, swimming, all the usual half term stuff. I was really worried as he'd only come for a couple of days, but every night wanted to stay longer rather than be driven home. He wasn't even interested in speaking to either parent on the 'phone. When it came to Sunday we had to take him back and rang his mum to say when we'd be getting there. She asked us to take him to his grandparents as she was having time to herself - she hadn't seen him since the previous Saturday!

I'm not suggesting your DIL is that bad but I think the sad fact is when children in your family are being neglected or not being parented if you care about them it's really impossible to say no. I know this is the conclusion my PILs have reached - the children have suffered enough rejection without them adding to it. Yes, the amount of childcare they do is dominating their lives and sabotaging their relationships with their other grandchildren, but, at the end of the day, if little children are suffering you have to put them first.

lisadupreez

Northern Star

Are you talking about my SIL - she is just sooo much better than all of my family. She only does that work thing when it is the 'right' kind of job - she works in TV don't you know, and it must be the right type of TV...

So far she has alientated all of my family - apart from Mum who puts up with her because of my brother and me because I live on the other side of the world to her.

I have 3 siblings with children and grandchildren and mum (grandma) constantly seems to have kids around at her house. I told her that she needs to start saying no.

She now has a day for each family and then charges them fees for the other days - sounds horrid in writing, but it's only a fiver for their extra day and makes the parents think first.

A few "Time Management" tips for ways of saying no:

Thanks for thinking of me first, but I'm just... (going for an interview - make it up, who cares; going to see my sick friend; about to do something you know she/child doesn't like?)
Always have your keys and coat ready by the front door, so that when she drives up you can run to the front door, pick up keys and coat and be half way out the door when she finally gets out the car and knocks and say that you were just off

I hope some of that was helpful.

Bogof_Babe

I unfortunately had no children, therefore have no grandchildren, but am in the relevant age group I suppose.

I've seen how lively, energetic and time-consuming neighbours' kids and grandkids are, just in passing, and I just know it would wear me out to be responsible for even one 3-year-old for more than half an hour, so I think it is inconsiderate of your dil to behave as she does - especially as it isn't even to further her own career, study or something, but just to hang around the place.

I hate to say this but her parenting skills are tantamount to child neglect. Piles of dirty washing lying around, the lads being dumped on anyone who'll have them, leading a chaotic lifestyle - this is no way to rear vulnerable youngsters.

However it is not your responsibility to take up the slack, what she and your son really need is a good talking to. Together. Say you are desperately worried as they don't seem to be managing their time and lifestyle very well, and the children are bound to suffer unless things change.

This is no time to be tiptoeing around worrying about their feelings. Nor should you be having to post on a message board because it is troubling you to be drawn into this. Ask them to pop round together as soon as possible, stick the kids in front of the telly with a plate of sandwiches, and get to the bottom of the real problems.

Alleycat

Does she just dump the kids and run out the door or stay for a bit with you all? If it is the former, could you suggest when she next comes round for you to look after the children, that you all go into town with her, maybe grab some lunch etc? It would be a good opportunity to spend time with her and the children and maybe suggest going to the park together when the shopping is finished etc? Does she do much fun stuff with the children such as swimming, playgroups, story time at the local library?

It sounds as if (and sorry if I am way off!) that she just doesn't seem to be getting into the whole parenting thing and is maybe struggling to readjust to a new way of living where she can't just do what she wants when she wants. I don't mean that to sound bad as I really struggled with the whole motherhood thing at first and still do find myself wishing I had a spare couple of hours to myself just to chill. I just think that maybe if someone actually shows her how to do it all, then she might realise that she really should be spending more quality time with the children. It is hard when women today are used to 'having it all' to settle into something so different, but she has to realise that they are her children and she is responsible for looking after them and her priorities have to change. You shouldn't be expected to drop everything to look after them, no matter how much you love them as you have a life to live too.

Also, I don't necessarily think it is a generational thing as I always feel really guilty when we stay at my parents and dd is in bed and we fancy going to the local pub for a drink. My child is mine and OH's responsibility and we wouldn't dream of asking (if we had family close enough) to take her so frequently. I would miss her too much anyway!!

Sweet_Pea_2

Hi,
I cant think of anything to add to all the excellent suggestions that have already been made really. It amazes me how many people do "dump" their kids on others. I have had this happen with friends of my daughters. They may have been to play at our house once or twice, and before you know where you are the mothers are ringing you up saying "can you just have x for the day for me because Im stuck" or "Im doing extra hours at work so can you collect x from school and give her her tea" Once or maybe twice I dont mind but I find it happens more and more with various different parents and I start to get annoyed and make excuses because I begin to feel like a real mug.
One mum said if I had her daughter for the day whilst she was at work (and feed her) she would have my daughter for the afternoon a couple of days later. Because our two daughters clash a bit personality wise, the day was very long and arduous and I eventually took them out to a soft play place in the hope they may stop arguing. When my daughter was due to go to the other girls house in return for the afternoon, she sat in the porch all afternoon waiting to be picked up and she wasnt - no phone call either (good job I had nothing planned) The girls mum said casually the next time I saw her "Oh my daughter decided she wanted to go to work with her dad instead" then a couple of weeks later she said her daughter had nits and she thought she must have picked them up from my daughter! (She didnt) and never a thankyou for a days free babysitting whilst she was at work either. (Ive obviously got "mug" tatooed on my forehead!) This is the problem I have with working term time so I am at home in the holidays to look after my daughters. I choose not to get paid for this time so I can spend it with them and other people think I may as well look after their kids for free so they can go and earn money! Sorry I will stop ranting now!
On another tack, sometimes I make up the odd excuse to keep my daughters with me as PIL will arrange our entire half term holidays if I let them and I like to spend time with them too sometimes!
Sorry I know I havent been much help really, but I hope you manage to sort it out. It sounds like you are really good to your daughter in law in spite of everything, its a pity its not appreciated.

Forgot to add - my PIL will ring the week before half term and say we would like to see the girls next week, we are busy or have other grandchildren on Monday, Tuesday and Thursday - can you let up know which day suits you best, Wednesday or Friday and we will have them for the day. You could try this, but remember not to answer the door on the days you are meant to be out!