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Restorative Justice - is it an excuse for the school not to deal with bullies?
Kazipoo
Posts: 806 Forumite
Morning all,
I'm after a bit of advice....
My youngest daughter, 10, is in year 6 at primary school, and for the last three years has been sporadically bullied by a girl in her class. Whenever an incident occurred, I attended school, had meetings with the teacher, and on one occasion with the head. These incidents were never much more than name calling, with the odd shove thrown in for good measure, and my daughter seemed to be dealing with it on the whole, not wanting me to make a big thing out of it.
More recently, the sporadic bully has employed another girl to carry out certain bullying tasks, however, the second girl has been physical with my daughter. My daughter didn't actually tell me, instead telling my older girls, who didn't tell me either, because they thought she had. Anyway, around a fortnight ago, my eldest told me that the second girl, egged on by the first, was tripping my daughter up on the way to Maths and kicking her under the table, so the teacher couldn't see. As you can imagine, I was mortified!! I collected my youngest from school that day and asked to speak with her class teacher. I told her what had been going on with the two girls and my daughter, and she seemed really shocked. I told her that this situation had been ongoing for three years and was shocked myself that she had not been made aware of it. She told me that she would monitor the situation, determine the correct course of action and get back to me.
I left it in their capable hands.
A few days later, my daughter came home from school and told me that her second bully had collected her from class, and along with her first bully, my daughter had to tell them how they made her feel when they called her names and kicked her. Well.... :eek: What the heck is that all about???
Everything seemed to die down, and my daughter didn't want me to make a big fuss, so I decided to respect her wishes and go with the flow.
Last week (Thursday), my daughter came home from school and told me that the second bully had punched her in the back of the neck, just simply ran up to her, punched her and ran away.... thankfully there were witnesses. Then later that same day, during a PE lesson she shoved her, punched her and kicked her and a friend she was with. My daughter told her if she didn't stop she would tell the teacher, to which the second bully replied "do what you want, they won't do anything!"
I was furious. I immediately phoned the school. There was nobody available to take my call and either the head or assistant head would phone me back as soon as possible.
About half an hour later, my daughters class teacher phoned me back, she said "I understand there has been a minor upset today!" :eek: Minor upset??? Are you out of your mind woman? My daughter has been physically attacked... albeit by a ten year old child, but still, that to me is not a "minor upset".
Fair enough, I was in neurotic mother mode at this point, rather demanding that they take immediate action etc etc :rolleyes:. But the teacher certainly didn't help. She tried to be condescending (not very good though) and spoke to me like I was a bit stupid. She pointed out that despite me screaming that this has been going on for 3 years, the physical bullying by the second girl has only been going on for a few months, and they refuse to see them as the same issue, because despite the second bully being egged on by the first one, they have to treat each bully individually. She told me that they would have a discussion about the best course of action the following day, and contact me straight away..... I got a dig in at that point
"Oh, you mean like you contacted me a fortnight ago??"
Anyway, needless to say, the hubby and I were not happy with the schools relaxed attitude to the situation. I contacted the LEA regarding the issue. Their hands are tied apparently and they can't do anything until I've given the school chance to deal with it.... cos apparently three years isn't long enough!!
The next morning the hubby wanted me to keep the daughter off school. He said it feels like we are sending our daughter in to be tormented by these girls. So I decided to take neurotic mummy head off, and put level headed reasoning head on. I phoned the school and asked them to print off a copy of their bullying policy when I came to drop my daughter off. I also requested a meeting with the head teacher, only he wasn't available :mad:!!
So armed with a cuppa, the internet and the school bullying policy I started to do some research.... may I add at this time, I nearly choked on my coffee, as the bullying policy contains the following snippets of information:
What will happen?
1. The bully or bullies may be asked to genuinely apologise. There may be other consequences.
2. If possible, the pupils will make friends.
How we stop bullying
Signing behaviour contracts
Writing stories or poems about bullying
Making up role-plays
Reading stories about bullying......
It goes on.
Basically, the policy is rubbish. It has no firm guidelines and includes namby pamby stuff like make friends with your bully!
I am all for educating people with regards to bullying, but to humiliate my daughter by making her stand in front of her bullies and tell them how upset she is?? I bet they were laughing inside... and certainly the second bully seems to have a good measure that the school aren't going to do right much about it.
Anyway, I finally managed to get in touch with the head late Friday afternoon.... I had the feeling he was going to give me the brush off at first, telling me how very busy he was, and that he would have to squeeze me in :mad: He asked me if I required any information up front, so I asked him directly what he was going to do about these girls. He said that the school deals with bullies using a technique called restorative justice. He pencilled me in for this afternoon (Monday) at 3.30pm (end of school). It will be me, him and the condescending (not) class teacher, whom, in case you haven't noticed, I have now taken a dislike to.
So, restorative justice.... I had never heard of it before, but in a nutshell, it is meant to help the bullies see the error of their ways because they are confronted with the feelings of their victims.... sounds like more PC to me.
I have researched this now, so that I am armed with information. Now according to the school system and the stats they have, this is a very effective measure, however, you take a look at any anti-bullying website and they will tell you that it just does not work. It merely arms the bully with more useful ammunition to be stored and used at a later date. Meanwhile, the bully apologises and keeps their heads down for a little while and hey presto they get away with it.
The other thing I have learnt about restorative justice, is that the teachers involved should be highly trained in these methods, people can't just read up about it and think "Yeah that looks good, we'll do that!" and then do it. It takes months of the correct training to understand the principles behind the method. So if the average teacher (untrained in these methods as it is too expensive for schools to fund) tries to impliment these methods, it can all go horribly wrong.
So, that will be my arguement today.
I want firm action taken against these girls, in particular the one who is physically assaulting my daughter. The school refuse to suspend her, heck I don't even think the parents have been informed!! I shouldn't have to demand that they do something... this should be a no-brainer, but I know that they will push these restorative justice measures, and hopefully I will be able to dissolve all of their arguements.
I don't really care about the background of the bullies, I am not interested if they are from a broken family, my priorities lie with my daughter, and they are just age old excuses in my opinion, for the school to get away with doing nothing.
I have informed the police, who sent a lovely young man around to speak to my daughter. They said they will step back and allow the school to take action, however, if the school appear to be taking no action, the police can take action as the children involved are 10 and 11, and that is the minimum age to be arrested at :eek:.
So, I'm hoping I've covered all my bases, but I wondered if anyone else had any dealings with restorative justice, what was your experience and is it just a load of rubbish or does it work??
Sorry for the looooooooooooooong post
I'm after a bit of advice....
My youngest daughter, 10, is in year 6 at primary school, and for the last three years has been sporadically bullied by a girl in her class. Whenever an incident occurred, I attended school, had meetings with the teacher, and on one occasion with the head. These incidents were never much more than name calling, with the odd shove thrown in for good measure, and my daughter seemed to be dealing with it on the whole, not wanting me to make a big thing out of it.
More recently, the sporadic bully has employed another girl to carry out certain bullying tasks, however, the second girl has been physical with my daughter. My daughter didn't actually tell me, instead telling my older girls, who didn't tell me either, because they thought she had. Anyway, around a fortnight ago, my eldest told me that the second girl, egged on by the first, was tripping my daughter up on the way to Maths and kicking her under the table, so the teacher couldn't see. As you can imagine, I was mortified!! I collected my youngest from school that day and asked to speak with her class teacher. I told her what had been going on with the two girls and my daughter, and she seemed really shocked. I told her that this situation had been ongoing for three years and was shocked myself that she had not been made aware of it. She told me that she would monitor the situation, determine the correct course of action and get back to me.
I left it in their capable hands.
A few days later, my daughter came home from school and told me that her second bully had collected her from class, and along with her first bully, my daughter had to tell them how they made her feel when they called her names and kicked her. Well.... :eek: What the heck is that all about???
Everything seemed to die down, and my daughter didn't want me to make a big fuss, so I decided to respect her wishes and go with the flow.
Last week (Thursday), my daughter came home from school and told me that the second bully had punched her in the back of the neck, just simply ran up to her, punched her and ran away.... thankfully there were witnesses. Then later that same day, during a PE lesson she shoved her, punched her and kicked her and a friend she was with. My daughter told her if she didn't stop she would tell the teacher, to which the second bully replied "do what you want, they won't do anything!"
I was furious. I immediately phoned the school. There was nobody available to take my call and either the head or assistant head would phone me back as soon as possible.
About half an hour later, my daughters class teacher phoned me back, she said "I understand there has been a minor upset today!" :eek: Minor upset??? Are you out of your mind woman? My daughter has been physically attacked... albeit by a ten year old child, but still, that to me is not a "minor upset".
Fair enough, I was in neurotic mother mode at this point, rather demanding that they take immediate action etc etc :rolleyes:. But the teacher certainly didn't help. She tried to be condescending (not very good though) and spoke to me like I was a bit stupid. She pointed out that despite me screaming that this has been going on for 3 years, the physical bullying by the second girl has only been going on for a few months, and they refuse to see them as the same issue, because despite the second bully being egged on by the first one, they have to treat each bully individually. She told me that they would have a discussion about the best course of action the following day, and contact me straight away..... I got a dig in at that point
"Oh, you mean like you contacted me a fortnight ago??"Anyway, needless to say, the hubby and I were not happy with the schools relaxed attitude to the situation. I contacted the LEA regarding the issue. Their hands are tied apparently and they can't do anything until I've given the school chance to deal with it.... cos apparently three years isn't long enough!!
The next morning the hubby wanted me to keep the daughter off school. He said it feels like we are sending our daughter in to be tormented by these girls. So I decided to take neurotic mummy head off, and put level headed reasoning head on. I phoned the school and asked them to print off a copy of their bullying policy when I came to drop my daughter off. I also requested a meeting with the head teacher, only he wasn't available :mad:!!
So armed with a cuppa, the internet and the school bullying policy I started to do some research.... may I add at this time, I nearly choked on my coffee, as the bullying policy contains the following snippets of information:
What will happen?
1. The bully or bullies may be asked to genuinely apologise. There may be other consequences.
2. If possible, the pupils will make friends.
How we stop bullying
Signing behaviour contracts
Writing stories or poems about bullying
Making up role-plays
Reading stories about bullying......
It goes on.
Basically, the policy is rubbish. It has no firm guidelines and includes namby pamby stuff like make friends with your bully!
I am all for educating people with regards to bullying, but to humiliate my daughter by making her stand in front of her bullies and tell them how upset she is?? I bet they were laughing inside... and certainly the second bully seems to have a good measure that the school aren't going to do right much about it.
Anyway, I finally managed to get in touch with the head late Friday afternoon.... I had the feeling he was going to give me the brush off at first, telling me how very busy he was, and that he would have to squeeze me in :mad: He asked me if I required any information up front, so I asked him directly what he was going to do about these girls. He said that the school deals with bullies using a technique called restorative justice. He pencilled me in for this afternoon (Monday) at 3.30pm (end of school). It will be me, him and the condescending (not) class teacher, whom, in case you haven't noticed, I have now taken a dislike to.
So, restorative justice.... I had never heard of it before, but in a nutshell, it is meant to help the bullies see the error of their ways because they are confronted with the feelings of their victims.... sounds like more PC to me.
I have researched this now, so that I am armed with information. Now according to the school system and the stats they have, this is a very effective measure, however, you take a look at any anti-bullying website and they will tell you that it just does not work. It merely arms the bully with more useful ammunition to be stored and used at a later date. Meanwhile, the bully apologises and keeps their heads down for a little while and hey presto they get away with it.
The other thing I have learnt about restorative justice, is that the teachers involved should be highly trained in these methods, people can't just read up about it and think "Yeah that looks good, we'll do that!" and then do it. It takes months of the correct training to understand the principles behind the method. So if the average teacher (untrained in these methods as it is too expensive for schools to fund) tries to impliment these methods, it can all go horribly wrong.
So, that will be my arguement today.
I want firm action taken against these girls, in particular the one who is physically assaulting my daughter. The school refuse to suspend her, heck I don't even think the parents have been informed!! I shouldn't have to demand that they do something... this should be a no-brainer, but I know that they will push these restorative justice measures, and hopefully I will be able to dissolve all of their arguements.
I don't really care about the background of the bullies, I am not interested if they are from a broken family, my priorities lie with my daughter, and they are just age old excuses in my opinion, for the school to get away with doing nothing.
I have informed the police, who sent a lovely young man around to speak to my daughter. They said they will step back and allow the school to take action, however, if the school appear to be taking no action, the police can take action as the children involved are 10 and 11, and that is the minimum age to be arrested at :eek:.
So, I'm hoping I've covered all my bases, but I wondered if anyone else had any dealings with restorative justice, what was your experience and is it just a load of rubbish or does it work??
Sorry for the looooooooooooooong post
Starting weight 17st 4lb - weight now 15st 2lbs
30lb lost of 30lb by June 2012 :j:j:j (80lb overall goal)
30lb lost of 30lb by June 2012 :j:j:j (80lb overall goal)
0
Comments
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Oh my goodness - your poor daughter! Can't really offer any advice, but you do have my sympathy!!
Are the other two girls in the same form group? If so, maybe you could ask if they coould be separated by moving the other 2 (not your daughter - she's done nothing wrong and why should she be disrupted!)
Sadly, it seems like a lot of kids feel they can do anything they like as they know they "have rights" but aren't capable of considering that others "have rights" as well and that their actions impinge on this!
Good luck0 -
Oh my goodness - your poor daughter! Can't really offer any advice, but you do have my sympathy!!
Are the other two girls in the same form group? If so, maybe you could ask if they coould be separated by moving the other 2 (not your daughter - she's done nothing wrong and why should she be disrupted!)
Sadly, it seems like a lot of kids feel they can do anything they like as they know they "have rights" but aren't capable of considering that others "have rights" as well and that their actions impinge on this!
Good luck
Yes they are all in the same form.... the two bullies actually sit together. The school thinks I am being unreasonable asking for the kids to be moved.... why should my daughter have to move?? Anyway, they are setted together in forms, so even if she were to change forms (which would probably be a no-go anyway) she would probably have to go back to the original classes for her lessons.
They usually bully her at break and lunch, because the new bully is a playground monitor, and for some reason, makes her immune to being punished. At lunchtime, the supervisors are too busy gossiping with each other to take any interest, although in one of my more neurotic moments, I did threaten legal action if my daughter was harmed because one of their staff members were not doing their jobs properly Starting weight 17st 4lb - weight now 15st 2lbs
30lb lost of 30lb by June 2012 :j:j:j (80lb overall goal)0 -
I would suggest keeping a log of each iccident and then taking it in and geting a teacher to sign it or asking for a copy of the first aid log if she needs to go to the first aid room. I would encourage her to do so even if it is just to put cold water on it as it will have to be reported and logged.......
my friend got the local community police thing to have a word with the head master when this happen to their daughter worked really well.
Also ask with name of the parent governer who is in charge of child welfare or bullying.
Also advise the school in writing that you want the other parents informed of their childrens behavoir and will be expecting the school to confirm in writing that it has been done so and to give all children involved clear guildlines of where to get help and what will happen if this doesn't stop.....0 -
I would suggest keeping a log of each iccident and then taking it in and geting a teacher to sign it or asking for a copy of the first aid log if she needs to go to the first aid room. I would encourage her to do so even if it is just to put cold water on it as it will have to be reported and logged.......
my friend got the local community police thing to have a word with the head master when this happen to their daughter worked really well.
Also ask with name of the parent governer who is in charge of child welfare or bullying.
Also advise the school in writing that you want the other parents informed of their childrens behavoir and will be expecting the school to confirm in writing that it has been done so and to give all children involved clear guildlines of where to get help and what will happen if this doesn't stop.....
Yes I agree with the "in writing" bit.... I have seen this on other websites, so I have drafted a letter to take in with me, explaining that not only do I want a meeting with them, but I also want their solutions to the problem in writing, although I didn't think to add about getting the other parents informed, good thinking batman!!:TStarting weight 17st 4lb - weight now 15st 2lbs
30lb lost of 30lb by June 2012 :j:j:j (80lb overall goal)0 -
oh i do feel for you had a similar situation with my son when he was in his junior school
i wish i could tell u i solved it but we didnt despite numerous interviews with the head at the school and contacting the governors, i threatened the school with the police as they had a duty to 'protect' my son whilst in their care.
when i spoke to them they agreed with me but their policy was more of well tell him to come inside if he feels threatened than dealing with the bullies themselves. one time he fought back and guess what? they threatened to expel him but thats another story
i could say so much more but i dont want to witter on when u have enough to worry about and sorry i know i am not being terribly helpful but just wanted to respond cos i do know how u feel... good luckWhen you know better you do better0 -
I don't know if they'll take it seriously as she's 10, but why not report the physical abuse to the police? Or threaten that if they don't do something then you'll get the police involved. How does your daughter feel about taking up Karate or Judo or something? I was bullied for the whole of my secondary school life and know schools are crap at sorting out things! Hopefully though, it'll stop when she goes to a new school in July. I know it's a long time away but it's something to look forward to
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine..0 -
kazipoo, i really feel for you and your daughter. it dosent sound as if the school is doing anything positive to help your daughter.
my sons junior school's were like this.
i have heard of restorative justice being used, by the youth offending team, they get the young people to talk to their victims to help them learn how they have hurt them, in my opinion the majority of the time this does not work.
good luck with your meeting todayenjoy life, we only get one chance at it:)0 -
Thank you all for your replies they are much appreciated....
I have found out that in 27% of school bullying cases this method does appear to work (offenders do not seem to repeat offend), however, that also means that in 73% of all cases, it simply doesn't, which equates to a big waste of time and resources if you ask me. Many anti-bullying charities also quote it as a big waste of time and in fact a tool to aid bullies by equipping them with further ammunition for future use.
I will be armed and dangerous today lol.... I have my facts and arguements for both sides of the story and I am stubborn, very stubborn in fact. I want them to give me definites not maybes or perhaps'es (sp). I want a definite plan of action against these bullies to make my daughter feel like she can attend school without fear of physical attacks.
The LEA said I should have someone with me, but at short notice its not really possible, so I am thinking about going to purchase a cheap recording device beforehand.
In my opinion the school should have zero tolerance for physical attacks, yet the head teacher said that he would only take immediate action if he deemed the attack as serious enough.... so what is deemed as serious enough?? A broken bone? A knife wound?
Also, in my opinion, the second bully should be excluded from their classes, at least for a short period of time, so they know what they have done is wrong. Some, or probably most bullies would easily apologise for their actions knowing that it would give them at least a reprieve or even a full pardon, wouldn't they? And surely this method relies on the fact that the bully has a conscience... which I am sure many don't, which is why they bully in the first place. Keep the comments coming, it is giving me fresh eyes and ideas for ammunition of my own.
Karen xxStarting weight 17st 4lb - weight now 15st 2lbs
30lb lost of 30lb by June 2012 :j:j:j (80lb overall goal)0 -
I was bullied at school on and off for the whole time i was there by one certain girl. I hate to say this but unitl the day i stood upto her nothing was going to stop her parents or the teachers. She quickly learned to do things out side of the school so they couldnt touch her. I'd had enough by my fourth year and just snapped one day and although i am not proud of my actions that day standing up to her (and yes i beat her up) ended the whole thing she stayed away from that day forward. I'm am not a violent person infact i'm a bit of a coward when it comes to confrontation. I would have hoped schools would have moved forward by now and be able to protect children better from these thugs but obviously not.
Op your obviously a wonderfull mom wish mine had taken such an interest i do hope you get it sorted and quickly. Goodluck:jFriends are like fabric you can never have enough:j0 -
For what it's worth, I completely agree with your calling the police - I would have done too.
I'd tell the school today that I've informed the police and that any further incidents will be treated as assault and reported accordingly and documented - as will the school's response - and that you want that information passed onto the parents of the children involved.
I have to say that in my experience, the school that my son goes to have been rubbish about dealing with stuff like this. It's like they are too afraid to make a deal out of it as they know there could be repercussions/work for them. The only time I've really got an effective solution is when I've spoken with the parents involved directly or written directly to the head and got it documented.
But that's me. I'm pretty fearless and when it comes to my children's safety, I dont' care what other people's parents think of me. I'd personally probably go up to the parents in question and tell them that I've reported the incdents to the police and if anything else happens (no matter how minor) - they'll be up the school with me explaining their case to he authorities and I'll push it all the way.
Someone has to take charge of the situation. Someone has to curbing this behavour.
Out of interest - will they be going to the same secondary school?"One day I realised that when you are lying in your grave, it's no good saying, "I was too shy, too frightened."
Because by then you've blown your chances. That's it."0
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