Dog dominance

suki1964

BeenieCat wrote: »

I did just skim read the sarabe thing at first and thought there was some sensible points raised at the end of the article.

But i have to say i don't think what me or ex have done with dog is same as Fido's owner, mainly because Fido's owner gave in, which is the worst thing you can do even i know that.
He (imo) gave the dog permission to act aggressive by retreating, so giving the dog a good reason to think his behaviour was getting him somewhere. I would never let my dog know i was afraid of her, even though she startled me earlier i looked her straight in the eye and told her no. If i'd cowered, i would see that as her gaining power she shouldn't ever have or thinks she can have, over a human.

This is precisely what i want to avoid, which was why i asked the question, although i can see i perhaps overreacted, thinking about it now.

So now you give the dog something other to get confused about - You stare it straight in the eye?

Did you not know that doing that is directly challenging a dog?


Sarabe's post is spot on

BeenieCat

Thanks FC. He didn't actively take her out working but that style of training is what he was working towards, he'd worked his previous Springer, not sure exactly what, something to do with disturbing pheasants for the people to shoot It's all beyond me and i feel quite bad she won't get to do that now, but i do try and keep her as stimulated as possible, she's very intelligent but to my friends who don't understand springers, she comes across as a clumsy hyperactive idiot :rotfl:

BeenieCat

suki1964 wrote: »

So now you give the dog something other to get confused about - You stare it straight in the eye?

Did you not know that doing that is directly challenging a dog?


Sarabe's post is spot on

As opposed to letting her think she's in control of me? Maybe some of my exes theories were a bit ott to some but that's one thing i agree on. Dogs know when you're afraid of them. As it happens, she looked away, which is exactly what i wanted.

suki1964

Actually I think all your theories around dogs need to be looked at tbh

Dogs are not part of the human race so can not be part of a pack with you

Staring a dog in the eyes is a challenge to them

You had already caused the dog to growl by feeding it a bone in a non safe area then decided to take it from it

Im surprised the dog only growled ( actually it just proves what lovely temperaments spaniels have) another breed would have gone for you

Ruby_Moon

BeenieCat wrote: »

Nice patronising tone. Quite unnecessary, don't you think?

Is it a problem for you that i'm trying to discover a technique to ensure my dog doesn't growl at her owners? I know i'm not the only person with this mindset that my dog should be bottom of the pack. Maybe if less people sat by while their dog growled at kids there'd be less maulings in the news :rolleyes:

How to take things to extremes.
You have been given advice on what to do by a few posters and yet you don't think that will work or that its not something you want to do so what was the point in you asking if you don't want to know?
Is it that you are just wanting someone to say "Oh dear, thats not good. I would rehome him immediately" so you feel you have some justification to give up your dog? Who knows? Only you, but you don't actually come across as wanting your dog to be happy and for you to solve the problem.
It is not difficult to understand, if you don't want the dog to growl at you, don't take away its bone.
As for the implication that a growling dog will maul a child to death, don't be so tactless. The recent mauling had nothing whatsoever to do with bones or growling and a great deal to do with the dog being an illegal breed to start with.

BeenieCat

Where did i insinuate i would even contemplate getting rid of my dog? My dog is happy, and according to you, there is no problem.

lostinrates

suki1964 wrote: »

Dogs are not part of the human race so can not be part of a pack with you

I'm not really convinced of the no-pack assosiation theories, though I remain open to other opinion.

Looking at the dogs behaviour (as I cannot assess their philosophising ) I care that my dog defers to me as his ''leader''. It is important to understand that this could be a misinterpretation and remain open to other theories, but so far this works for me.

As regards food I do not ever remove food from dogs. I expect them to give over toys, things they've taken/stolen/, and I consistantly reward for the return of goods (usually not with food however but with affection).

I DO have some training and control around food though, but that is not around taking the food away, but rather when the dog may commence eating and also, food not yet ''theirs'' whch I want them to leave. This could be food dropped from a table, or something they believe is food and I believe either is not or is not suiatble (food int he street for example.) There is a huge difference, both behaviourally and in my intent (and I believe though have no proof, the dogs' ''rationalisation''). I expect my dogs to defer to me, but I do not expect this to be a never ending series of onfrontations and cowerings, but rather predominantly something they WANT to do.

Thus leave it, I train and reward with food treats. I extend this to expecting them to sit and leave their food until I give a release command. TBH, ''dominance'' is a very minor part of this ''control''. Primarily my concern is we have three large dogs, and having lack of discipline and calm when putting food bowls down for dogs who could knock me over with a flick of their tales is undesirable!

ETA: thi is not meant to be a confrontational post, I actually agree with very much suki says, and I believe difference in approaches and even in interpreting approaches is vital for breaking new ground in understanding behaviour and how we can most easily harness that understanding to work for us and the dogs' beenfit in cohabitation.

Ruby_Moon

BeenieCat wrote: »

Where did i insinuate i would even contemplate getting rid of my dog? My dog is happy, and according to you, there is no problem.

No, according to me, you trying to take away the dogs bone is the problem.
She is a Springer who would like to have a 10 mile run every day, or at least 3 very good long walks and she needs this for absolute contentment. I would think that she is not getting that because her contentment is being found in a bone. A dog can often go into a trance like state when they have a bone, especially if the bone is their main source of enjoyment, and you need to learn about that so that you know how to break through the 'trance' without upsetting her and master techniques in assuring her that you are not going to take away the things she likes.
She has already lost her main man. She may well have lost her long walks. What else might she lose?
I really struggle to see how you can cope with a Springer as well as a child, never mind a new born baby and felt, and if I am wrong then I do apologise, that this does niggle at the back of your mind and are somehow trying to find a justifiable reason to give her up.
I do know that Springers are extremely gentle dogs though, so to growl at you she was very upset and I would not want that to be made any worse for you or her, especially with a baby coming along, as Springers do get very jealous and are prone to sulk.

BeenieCat

Just to clarify, the initial growl came from my son just walking past her, he didn't acknowledge her at all. He came and told me about it, he thought it funny, but i didn't so i asked him to walk by again, this is when i saw a side of her i hadn't seen before.
So, perhaps misguidedly depending on whose viewpoint - i decided to see if she'd give up her bone for me. I didn't snatch it off her, i put my hand under her chin and asked her to leave it. I did that a few times and each time she gave me it i said good girl, and stroked her head, then gave her it back. All the while i kept eye contact with her as i have always believed this to be a good way to maintain control of a situation, much the same as when scolding a naughty child!
There was a moment at first where i thought there was a chance she could snap at me, but she didn't, and seeing that side to her prompted me into posting the thread. By posting the thread i knew i'd get different viewpoints and i am open to those, it's already made me realise that my ex wasn't necessarily correct, but i do still agree with some of his theories, i am sure i'll learn whether they work for me or not in time.

She is contented, and the bone was an occasional treat. I don't reward her with food treats when we're outdoors, maybe i should, but never felt the need to as yet. She's not getting a 10 mile run everyday no, but i'm sure there's millions of dogs who don't! I give her either a 45 min - 1hr walk, and another shorter one after school. This isn't a gentle stroll by my heel on a lead, this is at the nature reserve or huge field with a tennis ball or dummy so more energetic than most dogs i see while we're out. Yes she got more when ex was here, but i think we're doing okay considering i'm 9 months pregnant. In the first week or so after giving birth she might have to go without such long walks, but i'm sure that won't damage her too much, she'll still get a short one!

Getting rid of her isn't an option and never will be. I will find a way to manage if i ever feel i'm struggling or that her quality of life is being affected by the new baby. If this means roping in friends or family to help then i will, but i'm not working a
t the moment so i have time for everyone. Some dogs i know are locked in kennels outside all day, she has a much better life than that!

Fire_Fox

BeenieCat you are spending far too much time justifying yourself when you have no need to. By your own admission you don't know everything about training a dog (who does?) and so you have asked for advice. Just thank or ignore posts as you see fit - at nine months PG you shouldn't be being attacked you should be being supported. Best of luck with baby and dog!