T-mobile contract - PAC shenannigans!

ericthelobster

The T-mobile contract of one of my family is now one month away from the end, so - as we have done numerous times before, we rang them up to ask for a PAC with the intention of giving this to a new airtime provider in about 3.5 weeks' time, ie at the end of the contract and when we've sourced the next good 12-month deal. (When the PAC is provided to the new provider, that act closes the T-mobile account and the number goes to the new account, right?)

So, I had a very strange conversation with the T-mobile-droid in retentions; so much so that I assumed he had no clue what he was doing, told him to forget it; and I then rang them back in the hope of speaking to someone more clued up. However, the story I got was just the same...

In a nutshell, he said I could either give 30 day's notice, OR ask for a PAC but NOT both. Furthermore, if I did give notice, I would then no longer be able to obtain a PAC in future; the account would close in 30 days and the number would lapse!

Moving on... I was then told that if I asked for a PAC now, then that action would close the account more or less straight away (but I would still be liable for the rest of the contract). BOTH droids specifically said this - that it's the requesting of the code which closes the account, not the handing over to the new provider.

They also advised that the best thing to do was wait until 3-4 days before the 12-month anniversary of the (12-month) contract, and THEN ask for the PAC - the contract will then finish at the 12-month anniversary (ie not 30 days after I ask for the PAC!!). Now I think that's totally wrong info - I'm worried if I wait till then until I ask for the PAC I'll suddenly find myself with another 30 days' contaract to pay for.

This is completely different to what I've experienced previously, over many years and many contracts. But I've been given the same story by two different operators.

Any comments?!

Jon_01

Well they are correct in that you can only give 30 days notice or ask for your pac.
If you give notice your contract ends you lose your number.
If you ask for a pac then your contract ends when the pacs used and the number moves from one network to another.
So, as you can see you can either do one or the other but not both...

DarkConvict

He is correct, it is a 30 day cancellation in writing or issue the PAC code.

If you decide to cancel then in 30 days after giving notice the contract ends, and anything remaining on the contract is paid, although as you are billed a month in advance you usually get a refund.

As to the PAC code, the PAC code is also like giving notice, however when the PAC is used it will cancel the contract as soon as the number is transferred. So you should request the PAC in the last 30 days of a contract, and then setup a new contract and give the new operator the PAC code in the last 5 or so days.
If you do not use the PAC code within 30 days, it expires and your contract continues as 30 day rolling (assuming you have done the full term already), at which you can either request a new PAC or a cancellation of 30 days.

ericthelobster

Thanks for the replies. Yes I do understand and appreciate what you're both saying - I'm anything but a newbie at this, having been doing for years exactly what you are saying; re-reading my post maybe I wasn't making my point very clearly... This is the key bit:

ericthelobster wrote: »

I was then told that if I asked for a PAC now, then that action would close the account more or less straight away (but I would still be liable for the rest of the contract). BOTH droids specifically said this - that it's the requesting of the code which closes the account, not the handing over to the new provider.

And I am sure that is wrong - isn't it? I was told that I would have to pay £23 over the phone by credit card, there and then, representing the airtime remaining on the contract - regardless of when the PAC was used (I wouldn't intend to use it for 2-3 weeks yet). And that's despite the fact that the bill is paid each month by direct debit...

And then they came up with:

ericthelobster wrote: »

They also advised that the best thing to do was wait until 3-4 days before the 12-month anniversary of the (12-month) contract, and THEN ask for the PAC - the contract will then finish at the 12-month anniversary (ie not 30 days after I ask for the PAC!!). Now I think that's totally wrong info - I'm worried if I wait till then until I ask for the PAC I'll suddenly find myself with another 30 days' contract to pay for.

What does the panel think? Anybody else experienced PACcing out of T-mobile? (I have two more contracts with them to terminate in the next few months so am keen to resolve this... )

DarkConvict

I asked for my PAC about 20 days before the end of my contract, and used it within about 14 days.

Requesting a PAC does not close the account, as it is the intent of moving providers but not actually doing so. A phone number must exist with a mobile account so if they closed your account you wouldn't beable to PAC the number to another provider.

If you request a PAC 30 days before the contract ends, and then you use it the follow day, allowing 4 days for transfer, you would have 25 days left on the contract. So you will be billed for the outstanding 25 days.

aamuk

From my experience, getting a pac does not terminate your account. This just occurs, providing nothing is outstanding, once the pac transfer is completed by the new network.

ericthelobster

DarkConvict wrote: »

I asked for my PAC about 20 days before the end of my contract, and used it within about 14 days.

So was that with T-mobile, and recently? And did they ask you up-front for 20 days' airtime?

DarkConvict wrote: »

If you request a PAC 30 days before the contract ends, and then you use it the follow day, allowing 4 days for transfer, you would have 25 days left on the contract. So you will be billed for the outstanding 25 days.

Sure; this is exactly what I've experienced myself, probably a dozen times or more over the years. But in your scenario above, T-mobile would now be wanting to bill me for 30 days, in advance, even if I don't use my PAC for another 3 weeks (assuming it remains live for that long, as of course it should...)

DarkConvict

My experience was with vodafone

If you dont use the PAC code before the next billing cycle, usually end of a month they will bill you again for another 30 days, happened to me my PAC transferred on 14th September, so i was refunded prorata 15th-30th September. On a £45 a month contract i got ~£25 back.

t_mob_insider2

When you request a pac code it is not something that you have to order in advance - it is instant. So you ask the agent for a pac code after a discussing to retain you hopefully, they will give you it and also send you it via text message. Very simple procedure. Tends to be a little difficult to explain the difference between the Cancellation process of 30 days noitce & the pac code process.

30 days notice - you are cancelling and not taking your number with you. You can give notice at anytime as 30 days is just a minimum notice period ( you could give 300 days notice so your contract was cancelled on the exact date you contract ends), but calling to give you notice 30 days before you contract ends is better as the agent you are speaking with could try negotiate a new contract with you.

PAC code request ( Porting Authorisation Code ) - you are leaving and taking your number with you - can be requested at anytime, however if you are within contract then there will be ETF's. Simply steps -> You request your pac ( you get it) -> you give the pac to new provider -> number takes 2 days to transfer -> your account with t-mobile closes after number is transfered ( numbers stored on sim card and remaining allowance are deleted at this point) -> final bill sent out -> the end

When requesting a pac code if there is an early termination fee then this is just the cost of the rest of you contract. The ETF can be paid either over the phone by card or added to your final bill.

With t-mobile you may have made a double payment at the start of the contract. Senario being you are in the final month of your contract and the ETF for the pac code is say £25 and you are on a £35 contract - you get your pac code, you use it, you get your final bill within 14days of your number transfering which only takes 2 days ( usually ) and the final bill would say that you are £10 in credit. This is based on there being no "part charges" (using 30 days worth of allowance within that period) or making calls outside of your allowance. < This is just a simple example for understanding.

So with T-Mobile you are only charged for what you use or what you agreed to pay in terms on the contract length. Alot of people tend to think that the ETF for the PAC are there as some sort of scam because they are wanting to leave (spitting the dummy out without listening to explanation), obviously not the case & fully justified.

If this helps one person understand then my job is done here.

ericthelobster

t_mob_insider2 wrote: »

So with T-Mobile you are only charged for what you use or what you agreed to pay in terms on the contract length. Alot of people tend to think that the ETF for the PAC are there as some sort of scam because they are wanting to leave (spitting the dummy out without listening to explanation), obviously not the case & fully justified.

Hmm. But why are T-mobile charging the ETF at the time the PAC is requested, not from when it is actually used? As far as I'm aware this is unique to them; I've never experienced it with any other provider before, and it's hardly surprising if T-Mobile's customers aren't impressed.

t_mob_insider2

ericthelobster wrote: »

Hmm. But why are T-mobile charging the ETF at the time the PAC is requested, not from when it is actually used? As far as I'm aware this is unique to them; I've never experienced it with any other provider before, and it's hardly surprising if T-Mobile's customers aren't impressed.

because that is how much it would cost to buy out the contract from the day the pac is requested, therefore setting the customers expectations to the potential cost using the pac the same day, would you prefer to be given the pac code, using it then getting a final bill through will an ETF that was not explained, t-mobile agents are not mind readers and cannot predict when a customer will use the pac code so cant give an exact ETF, instead they give the highest figure it will be and if the customer doesnt use it for another few days then this will be shown on the final bill. I dont think anyone would call up and query that the final figure on the bill is less than originally quoted. Do you?

I wouldnt imagine that other providers wouldn't charge ETF's?