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Dispute with (business) landlord over electricity costs
Alan_M_2
Posts: 2,752 Forumite
Before I get my solicitor involved in this I thought I'd run it past any legal minds here to see if I'm simply wasting my time.
I (and my business neighbours to varying degrees) have a dispute with our landlord with regard to electricity costs.
We rent a warehouse unit under a three year lease agreement, our landlord supplies power to the entire site and bills individual units according to our meter readings.
There are two main meters (not sure why two?) and each of our units has a meter.
A clause in our lease states:-
The tenant will be responsible for the the payment of the cost of electricity consumed in the property at the landlords designated rate.
We have had trouble with power bills from day one, they have been shockingly expensive, when the first ones arrived they were very high indeed, so I queried them and was told the landlord simply charges what the electricy rate is per unit + 5% for administration...I have this in writing.
We were being billed whatever number of units our meter read. However the rate we were being billed varied wildly...some months 15p a unit, then the next quarter almost 30p a unit! I obtained a copy of the account from my landlord showing they paid about 10p a unit.
Our bills still seemed incredibly high for a single office and warehouse lights and a single 1kw fan heater....so we had our meter changed and the wiring checked, our usage dropped by 70% despite no change in our power consumption whatsoever.
This is an old building (built in the 1940's) and the wiring is all over the place, however it is very apparent there is a huge power leak somewhere as the sum total of the meters in the individual units is much less than the main meter readings consistently...deduction..power is being tapped and used unmetered by someone.
Despite extensive investigation they can't find where this is going so have simply stopped trying, they now divide the bill between all the tenants on a proportional basis based on our meter readings, meaning that the cost per unit that we're paying is treble what we can obtain on the open market.
I understand the following:
1. We are contracted to our landlord and cannot arrange our own supply
2. As this is a dispute with our landlord it falls outside of the remit of ofgem etc
3. As this is a business supply costs of units etc are irrelevant, legally my landlord can charge whatever they feel like.
Where do I stand legally?
Obviously this is unreasonable, but that has nothing to with anything. I need to know legally where I stand.
When I ask for the "Landlords designated rate", I'm told, the bill is simply divided up when it arrives and whatever the unit cost is, is whatever it is.
Can I reasonably expect a unit cost figure rather than the vague statement above?
For information I have been in touch with the landlords supplier (British Gas electricity) and they have confirmed they have a fixed contract period at a fixed rate, so the landlord knows 12 months in advance what the rate is.
I get very aggravated by this sort of thing, but before I go shooting my mouth off I'd like some other opinions.
This has been going on for two years to date.
I (and my business neighbours to varying degrees) have a dispute with our landlord with regard to electricity costs.
We rent a warehouse unit under a three year lease agreement, our landlord supplies power to the entire site and bills individual units according to our meter readings.
There are two main meters (not sure why two?) and each of our units has a meter.
A clause in our lease states:-
The tenant will be responsible for the the payment of the cost of electricity consumed in the property at the landlords designated rate.
We have had trouble with power bills from day one, they have been shockingly expensive, when the first ones arrived they were very high indeed, so I queried them and was told the landlord simply charges what the electricy rate is per unit + 5% for administration...I have this in writing.
We were being billed whatever number of units our meter read. However the rate we were being billed varied wildly...some months 15p a unit, then the next quarter almost 30p a unit! I obtained a copy of the account from my landlord showing they paid about 10p a unit.
Our bills still seemed incredibly high for a single office and warehouse lights and a single 1kw fan heater....so we had our meter changed and the wiring checked, our usage dropped by 70% despite no change in our power consumption whatsoever.
This is an old building (built in the 1940's) and the wiring is all over the place, however it is very apparent there is a huge power leak somewhere as the sum total of the meters in the individual units is much less than the main meter readings consistently...deduction..power is being tapped and used unmetered by someone.
Despite extensive investigation they can't find where this is going so have simply stopped trying, they now divide the bill between all the tenants on a proportional basis based on our meter readings, meaning that the cost per unit that we're paying is treble what we can obtain on the open market.
I understand the following:
1. We are contracted to our landlord and cannot arrange our own supply
2. As this is a dispute with our landlord it falls outside of the remit of ofgem etc
3. As this is a business supply costs of units etc are irrelevant, legally my landlord can charge whatever they feel like.
Where do I stand legally?
Obviously this is unreasonable, but that has nothing to with anything. I need to know legally where I stand.
When I ask for the "Landlords designated rate", I'm told, the bill is simply divided up when it arrives and whatever the unit cost is, is whatever it is.
Can I reasonably expect a unit cost figure rather than the vague statement above?
For information I have been in touch with the landlords supplier (British Gas electricity) and they have confirmed they have a fixed contract period at a fixed rate, so the landlord knows 12 months in advance what the rate is.
I get very aggravated by this sort of thing, but before I go shooting my mouth off I'd like some other opinions.
This has been going on for two years to date.
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Comments
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Technical point. LL may have a Maximum Demand meter which records the maximum demand for the highest halfhour in the month. This could lead to the fluctuating unit rates.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0
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DVardysShadow wrote: »Technical point. LL may have a Maximum Demand meter which records the maximum demand for the highest halfhour in the month. This could lead to the fluctuating unit rates.
LL has a fixed 12 month contract at unit rate fixed price. (I spoke with their supplier today and confrimed this).
I'm not sure how this physically works if they do have the meter you suggest.0 -
The unit price may well be fixed, but if it is a Maximum Demand tariff, then the unit rate may still fluctuate if the maximum demand charge is apportioned with your unit chargeLL has a fixed 12 month contract at unit rate fixed price. (I spoke with their supplier today and confrimed this).
I'm not sure how this physically works if they do have the meter you suggest.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
That'll need a real world example for me to understand what you're saying.0
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That'll need a real world example for me to understand what you're saying.
Month 1: consumption 1,000 units @ 10p, max demand 1 MW @ £40
Total cost £140 - cost per unit 14p
Month 2: consumption 1,000 units @ 10p, max demand 0.1 MW @ £40
Total cost £104 - cost per unit 10.4pHi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
Did you get anywhere with this Alan? You signed an agreemnt and then afterwards you are not happy with the terms you have signed because you are being charged different rates for electricity - to coin a phrase "bonkers"! This did make me "chuckle"!0
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The thread is almost two years old!Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
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