Staffies

tandraig

It seems to me that there should be a system for licensing breeders of dogs and there should be some training involved ie basic knowledge of breed standards, general pet care first aid etc. Premises should be inspected and be up to a certain standard, and it shouldnt be too expensive! the chavs can always get money so making it expensive wouldnt deter them.
then people breeding dogs and selling them without a license should have a huge fine and a few months in jail! perhaps it would deter some of these back street chav breeders - not just staffie breeders but those wanting to make money out of pups and not giving a damn for their wellbeing or knowing how to get the best from a bloodline.

cyberbob

tandraig wrote: »

It seems to me that there should be a system for licensing breeders of dogs and there should be some training involved ie basic knowledge of breed standards, general pet care first aid etc..

Thats what the KC do now to a degree those people who actually want a properly bred dog will research the breeder and the breed and buy from a reputable one.

No matter what you do what type of licensing etc you try there will always be the backyard breeders who don't care about the health bloodlines of the dog. Staffies are just a breed that attract this more than others due to there reputation.

foreign_correspondent

tandraig wrote: »

It seems to me that there should be a system for licensing breeders of dogs and there should be some training involved ie basic knowledge of breed standards, general pet care first aid etc. Premises should be inspected and be up to a certain standard, and it shouldnt be too expensive! the chavs can always get money so making it expensive wouldnt deter them.
then people breeding dogs and selling them without a license should have a huge fine and a few months in jail! perhaps it would deter some of these back street chav breeders - not just staffie breeders but those wanting to make money out of pups and not giving a damn for their wellbeing or knowing how to get the best from a bloodline.

Whilst I agree in theory, I think that the implementation and policing would be likely to be too costly to be viable, sadly.... the police did not even check out the report of illegal dog breeing (banned breeds) at the address in liverpool where the little boy died.... so even when we have the legislation, the implementation is still a problem...

tandraig

awww come on! this country is run on buaerocracy (oops cant spell that)! you need a licence for anything! if the amount of resources were spent similar to that of having a TV licence the policing of it wouldnt be a problem would it? hell you need a licence to run a bingo hall!!!
and how can there be illegal dog breeding if breeding isnt controlled by law and licencing? you mean owning illegal breeds - another matter!

foreign_correspondent

yeah, I did mean the breeding of banned breeds which is illegal... however, whether (hobby) dog breeding will ever be high enough to be on the agenda is a different matter - people who are seen as breeding as a business are already regulated to an extent, by local councils, but people who only breed occasionally are not... in a way this complicates the matter as many of the hobby breeders may well be sensible people with good bloodlines, and who have done their research... whilst others will be the sort who just churn out a litter of pups when they need the cash, with little research, forethought or planning...

I am also not sure how stringent local councils are with their regulation of breeders...?

I wonder if compulsory microchipping could be useful though - theoretically speaking (and I am just chucking some ideas about here!) if pups had to be chipped before sale, then dogs who end up in the pounds could actually be traced back to their breeders... if a steady stream of dogs comes in from the same breeder, perhaps their practice should be called into question?

suki1964

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

yeah, I did mean the breeding of banned breeds which is illegal... however, whether (hobby) dog breeding will ever be high enough to be on the agenda is a different matter - people who are seen as breeding as a business are already regulated to an extent, by local councils, but people who only breed occasionally are not... in a way this complicates the matter as many of the hobby breeders may well be sensible people with good bloodlines, and who have done their research... whilst others will be the sort who just churn out a litter of pups when they need the cash, with little research, forethought or planning...

I am also not sure how stringent local councils are with their regulation of breeders...?

I wonder if compulsory microchipping could be useful though - theoretically speaking (and I am just chucking some ideas about here!) if pups had to be chipped before sale, then dogs who end up in the pounds could actually be traced back to their breeders... if a steady stream of dogs comes in from the same breeder, perhaps their practice should be called into question?

Do you know what happens to microchips in dogs that need rid off? They are cut out. Usually with a pen knife causing agony for the dog in question

You know when cows die and the farmer cant be doing with going through the channels because its a disease thats going to effect his income? The ears with the tags on are chopped off before the cow is dumped

Microchips are just something that pet owners have been conned into thinking they need. Your dog gets lost and you are a loving owner you move hell and high water to find it, you dont give a dam then you wouldn't have had the pet chipped. Dog is stolen for breeding or fighting - then you can bet the chip is cut right out

suki1964

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

I think again, we have to agree to disagree on some points here, but working dogs of many breeds can clearly be found in rescue, and I do seem to remember that tigerlily said when she started thinking about a dog, that staffs were a breed she had some experience of, and liked, but wasnt sure her home would be right for one (staffs are not the first dog many people think of when looking for a dog to fit into a small household with a cat).

As this is a thread about staffies I think tigerlily's dog is a fantastic example of how well a rescue dog can respond to a good owner and some kind treatment and training, which is entirely relevant here.

Of course some people will choose a breeder, but there are particular ethical considerations when it comes to breeding staffies, as clearly many of the people breeding them are not doing so responsibly, and/or too may are being bred overall....

The op asked


I think that there is a shared responsibility for this problem, which lies at the door of those breeding staffies as well as those buying them, only to rehome them at a later date - this problem is clearly disproportionate, with far more staffies ending up in pounds/rescues than any other breed...

What can be done to limit this is questionable, but I think that fewer people breeding them, fewer buying, and more rescuing would all help... and maybe compulsory microchipping, neutering of staffies in pounds, and even dog licenses would help... I also think that the bad media image of staffies contributes to this problem, and that staffies which are gentle, well trained and in roles such as being a PAT dog help to counter this in some small way.



One thing is for sure, it is not a problem which seems to be reducing at the moment, or which there appears to be a quick fix for.

All dogs in reputable rescues are neutered before re homing aren't they? Or a voucher is given to have it done asap if the dog is too young at time of rehoming - Im sure thats what you tell everyone when the neutering question raises its head

Micro chipping? As I have pointed out in another post - microchips do nothing and are easily cut out

Licience? Dog licience? How much? Fiver as it is here? Then in that case - I can afford as many as I need. £200 - there will be more and more and more dogs in rescue and even more dogs are bred by back yard breeders

Staffies in rescue are because they are the most popular dog in the UK - overtaken the lab even and whilst they are popular you will get puppy farmers and every tom !!!!!! and harry breeding them for cash

So they are a victem of their own success you could say

Only way to stop them turning up in rescue? Stop them from being so popular or ban the breeding of them outright and say goodby to a breed

cyberbob

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

if pups had to be chipped before sale, then dogs who end up in the pounds could actually be traced back to their breeders... if a steady stream of dogs comes in from the same breeder, perhaps their practice should be called into question?

The only people who would chip there puppies would be the reputable breeders, No one else would bother those that bought there dog from some back street breeder wouldn't care if it had been chipped or not. It would be totally unenforcable and pointless

UKTigerlily

suki1964 wrote: »

Jump up and down all you like but it still doesnt mean you staffy is a worker and people like myself and others will still buy from breeders to get the dog we want. Buying a dog from a breeder isnt about a piece of paper but you are just obviously too blinkered and such a know all you cant be told and so dont want to listen

Not everyone wants rescue, not everyone wants a dog whos been trained by someone else and not everyone thinks staffies are fantastic dogs

Can you not for the life of you accept that? Or do we have to suffer every post you make to this board singing the praises of a breed( no matter what the thread would be started as) that you only happened to come across last year when your search for a king charles failed

Umm I didn't search for a King Charles, I researched breeds & that came out as the best suited, but never actually looked for one as you'd know if you ever read anything, I went to a Rescue & asked for a Dog that fit the characteristics of a Cav. And i've had Staffs before so it's not as if i've just come across the breed, as you'd also know if you ever read anything, i've also said in this thread that not everyone wants a Staff & why should they. Pups in rescue won't have been trained by anyone else, some from breeders will have been trained already to do many things so that's irrelevant. This thread is about Staffs, not Spaniels, so of course we are talking about STAFFS. I'm also not 'singing the praises of the breed' except you hasve selective reading, i've said about my Dog, if you ever read you'd know as a whole the breed wouldn't be right for me & that's why i'd ruled out having one when I was looking. I suggest you start a Spaniels thread & keep out of this as you have no idea about anything it'd seem & can't read what people are actually saying

UKTigerlily

Very few chips are cut out, particularly as people won't know unless they scan the Dog if it has one or where, many Dogs are reunited through being chipped, these are facts not opinions.