advice needed about schools

dbj

Am needing some advice....

I have a 5 year old who has always wet herself during the day, at night times she is dry, but when she wakes in the morning she will wet herself before actually getting to the toilet.
She has been reffered by our doctor for ultarsound (all clear), urine samples (all ok) and to a peadtrician, who said to give it time and called her a 'grunter' in other words she doesnt let it out when shes on the toilet, he said he would follow up with her in a year to see how she was :rolleyes:

When my daughter started school i informed the TA (they dont have one teacher, they share) about the problem of wetting, she said not to worry etc etc,
after a few weeks they noticed what i meant, she will wet herself and sit in it, she is happy to be wet (and sore too as she is wet so much!) so they have to convinvce her to go to the toilet and change her.....at one point she was hiding her wet knickers behind the toilet/down the toilet/in childrens wellies, but thankfully that has stopped.

Still not happy with the situation I spoke to the school nurse who has reffered my daughter to the urology team (unsure how long it is going to take to get an appointment)
but last week the school rang me and asked me to pick her up as she had wet herself and was sore and crying, I done so, and she was no more sore than any other day. I told them that I didnt want her getting used to wetting to get sent home....

Today she wet herself 3 times over the course of the school day, i realised this when she came out wearing spare school clothes (they had used all her spare clothes).

When I got home, I got a phonecall from the school to speak to me about her. They ask if there is aything they can do to help her, i say no apart from the usual reminding her to go to the toilet, and explain yet again i'm waiting for urology.....she then says that one of the TA's had attempted to put my daughter in the shower but she had kicked off going mad (she has a shower phobia) they dont seem very sympathetic to the fact I am trying to keep her dry but she just cant do it. They tell me to keep calling Urology and chasing them (maybe i'm just emotional but it really felt like they didnt believe i was trying to do anything!), When she does wet, it smells, and as she is happy to sit in it, the teachers normally dont notice until they smell her. they are obviously getting as annoyed at changing her again and again.

So what do I do from here, is a TA allowed to strip my daughter off and shower her without my permission? I am going to speak to the head tomorrow but really need to know where I stand before doing so. Can they exclude her for wetting, or do they have to support her?

any help appreciated

Caroline73_2

If you know your daughter will wet - could you send her in pull ups?

I don't know whether the TA is allowed or not to shower a child, but she was only trying to keep her clean and probably didn't know she had a shower phobia.

If her ultrasound and urinalysis are clear and she is dry at night then chances are it's psychological and that wquld be a more appropriate referal than urology. Is there an enuresis clinic the school nurse can refer you to as well.

also try http://www.eric.org.uk/ when I was a school nurse we used to refer people to these for support.

cavework

Poor little lass. I really do feel for her.
She is only 5 years old and all this pressure?
First thing is to make sure there is no medical reason as to why this is happening.
Sitting in urine soaked pants will make her very sore and even more unwilling to go to the loo when she needs it as it will be painfull.
If there is no medical reason it might be she now feels she is 'dirty'. The shower thing certainly won't help!
It is no good if people constantly ask her if she needs the toilet , she needs to feel confident enough to ask when she feels the need to go and no fuss made even if it is every 10 mins to start with, I'm 50 and quite often have to run for the loo:rotfl:
Maybe she needs to be given back a bit of control here?
xxx

HRV

Firstly they can't exclude her from school for wetting (it's discrimination)

As you are already going down the medical route then the school shouldn't need to involve the school nurse- however they can ask the nurse to contact the medical people involved if they need further detail or don't believe you ( Im not suggesting your lying but you might like to suggest this if you still think they dont believe you)

It may be that she will require a care plan for whilst she is at school ( we have one for the little boy who has downs syndrome in our Foundation stage unit). This will outline what is to be done eg. if she wets- this will be written in conjunction with the SENCO, possibly the nurse and you should be asked to input too- and you will be asked to sign it (obviously consenting to what it says)

The shower thing is difficult- we have had to shower a child once when he had a diarohea accident and we couldn't get hold of parents but that's in extreme cases. I think it does sound like a bit of a over reaction by the TA for wee.

Hope this helps

looby-loo_2

dbj wrote: »

Am needing some advice....

When I got home, I got a phonecall from the school to speak to me about her. They ask if there is aything they can do to help her, i say no apart from the usual reminding her to go to the toilet, and explain yet again i'm waiting for urology.....she then says that one of the TA's had attempted to put my daughter in the shower but she had kicked off going mad (she has a shower phobia) they dont seem very sympathetic to the fact I am trying to keep her dry but she just cant do it.

So what do I do from here, is a TA allowed to strip my daughter off and shower her without my permission? I am going to speak to the head tomorrow but really need to know where I stand before doing so. Can they exclude her for wetting, or do they have to support her?

any help appreciated

It must be very difficult for everyone concerned. It sounds as though they really are trying to help. The shower was because they were concerned about her being sore. Personally I would not be taking them to task about that. The referral has been made and I'm sure they will realise how long it takes. Can you try pull up so she doesn't smell? It would be awful if the other children started to bully her because of it.

tandraig

awwww your poor daughter, and you! it does sound more psychological if she has a shower phobia too. It sounds as though school are doing what they can to help, but until you get the medical all clear i doubt if they could refer to child psychologist - or maybe they or your gp could over the shower thing? school must be awful for her at the moment and its certainly not easy for you is it? you have my sympathies hun. may I pm you?

cavework

She is 5 years old.
When I was at school (1960's) children did wet their pants regularly.The teacher had lots of spare pants and no one made a fuss.
I grew up with these kids and by the time they were 9 years old 90% no longer had a problem .
Please just make sure she is not sore and is not made to feel she is not normal..
Give her a HUGE HUG from me please?
xxx

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Well, my first thought is that the TA trying to get her to go in a shower, rather than sitting soaked and stinking of urine, making carpets, cushions and chairs wet, and being open to the usual small child's reaction of 'ewwwww! She stinks!' or 'Mrs X, Y's wet herself AGAIN!', seems to be a well intentioned act.

I wouldn't be complaining about it. It may have not gone well, but they weren't doing it to upset her.

However, until she has a medical diagnosis or a psychological assessment if it's behavioural, not a lot can be done. So get the contact name and number for the child urologist she has been referred to (and go to your GP too and tell them clearly exactly what state she is in when she comes out of school) and keep pushing.

In the meantime, I would seriously consider big kid nappies/pull ups. Plenty of children have them, one in DD2's class only stopped using them this year and they're in Year 6. After all, it has to be better than the condition she is in now.

I hope this is sorted soon.

Sarah-Jane_2

Unless you have given permission to the TA to strip your child and shower them, then she shouldn't be doing it. You can clean up a child and get them dry without stripping her off and attempting to shower her. I would be livid about that tbh.
You need to get a copy of their guidelines on cleansing of children. Have you given permission for your child to be cleaned in this way by a member of staff? If you haven't, then take it further.
If your child was that smelly she should have been cleaned, dried and then you called to either come and shower/wash her yourself so she can return to class, or take her home.
I don't see the need for a TA to strip her completely and try to shower her. You aren't even allowed to offer comfort in the form of hugs etc to children in some schools these days, never mind shower them :eek:

I would also go down the pulls ups route until you have seen the urologist. Although if this is psychological or laziness on her part it could add to the problem

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

It occurs to me also that you saying you didn't want her encouraged to wet herself by thinking that if she does it, she can go home, that they thought this meant they had to deal with it?

mrsbez_2

Just read your thread as it is in a way similar to my daughter.
We have had problems with her wetting herself, mainly being late for the toilet. Just to pick up on a point you mentioned where you say her wee smells, when my daughter has a very strong smelling urine i know she has another urine infection and we have to go and get anitbiotics for her. I presume ur DD has had urine tested for infections?
We have been referred to a paed, my DD all scans are clear and they think it is just one of those 'things', she just keeps getting urine infections, but i think this is caused by her not going to the toilet enough and other hygiene probs at school.

IMO the school should change your DD every time she wets herself, no matter how many times that is.

Funnily enough, my DD was fine with potty training etc the problems started for us when she started nursery (at the school she is at now). I would be interested to see how ur DD gets on and if the school helps her further?