MSE News: 'Smart Meter' energy roll-out plans unveiled

Markee

james2005 wrote: »

Fridges and freezers could be turned off at peak times to save power – but will automatically be switched back on if the temperature inside rises too high.

Everyone should know not to believe what they read in the Mail!

Fridges and Freezers already have a device which turns them off when not needed then turn them back on when the temperature rises - it's called a thermostat and one is fitted to every fridge and every freezer and, believe it or not, fridge freezers have one for each section! Wow! How do you think the most efficient ones have had an energy "A" rating for years?

KeepYourChinUp_2

james2005 wrote: »

"Smart meters" - bad for our bodies & minds? I find this Daily Mail article that everyone in the UK will get a smart meter to monitor energy consumption very worrying.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nergy-use.html

"Every British home is to be issued with a ‘smart’ meter which calculates how much gas or electricity is used each time an appliance is switched on.
Families will also know how much they are spending minute-by-minute.
Details will be announced by the Energy Secretary Ed Miliband this week.
Old-style meters will be ripped out and replaced with the gadgets, which can be programmed to turn appliances on and off to take advantage of off-peak rates.
Out with the old: Older-style electric meters will be phased out to make way for new 'smart' meters
Fridges and freezers could be turned off at peak times to save power – but will automatically be switched back on if the temperature inside rises too high.
The utility companies will pay for the £7billion installation programme, though much of the cost is expected to be recouped later from customers.
Mobile phone technology will be used to transmit information on each family’s energy consumption to a central ‘hub’.
The system, to be introduced over the next ten years, will allow power companies to read meters remotely and mean the end of estimated bills.
Energy suppliers will save billions by doing away with meter readers and call centre staff.
Ministers claim families will save money by seeing their costs on a daily basis – and will be encouraged to cut back to reduce bills.
The announcement comes days before world leaders arrive in Copenhagen for a climate change summit.
The Government hopes to enhance Britain’s ‘green’ credentials by showing it is determined to cut energy consumption."

And the reason I find it worrying is because I have previously read this article about the introduction of these meters in Scandinavia, and the implications for our health and for Big Brother monitoring us....

http://eldib.wordpress.com/2008/10/0...n-and-finland/

"Everyone has it but no one knows what it is or what it does- The Energy Box.

(Digital electric Meter-the “Eshelon Meter” ,a PLC System of the Televent Company))

We got it without caring about it, without understanding, without asking. (Common sense demands curiosity and explanations.) Not el-internet which was stopped, for the Broad band company’s, especially 3G, should go into bankruptcy.

The ENERGY BOX is a transmitter and the frequency is a mixture of GSM and 3G Internet.

It is a broad-band and always turned on-not just for those seconds that the electric company uses it.

The box radiates us not only directly with 3G radiation (a pulsating frequency,very malicious and only for the military),but the beams go into the transmitter and the entire electronic current in the house becomes a 3G communication system which is connected to internet and can obviously radiate many to death (leukemia).

The box does not transmit to the electric company but to internet in which case the entire electric system is transformed into a communication system.

Why the internet, why are such quietness and secretiveness built into the house, why replace the electricity with a communication system?

SIMPLE: 3G is an efficient military system and telephony is only a side effect. The whole problem with the masts and antennas radiating along with others was only a “disguise manoeuvre” and the only goal was to get this little transmitter into our houses.Now not only is the house radiating at a pulsating high frequency, but it is also connected to the internet. (The first “internet houses in the world”)

It does not help to reject the box because your neighbour has one and transmits impulses to your house with the electrical system.

However we absolutely have the right not to accept the box because the “LAW” that the authorities use does not exist and absolutely not one about “forced radiation”.

The real basis for one to change our electric system to a communication system can only be put simply- “Totalitarian Control”.

Now electricity is valid under another law , the so called “Communication Law”.

This law gives FRA ( Försvarets Radio Anstalt-Defence Radio Communications) ,one of the secret spy-systems in Sweden. the right to control and carry out spying activities. They can read mails, listen to telephones and control every kind of communication, also “Internet-elen” and with this your house.The sweden regime give precisly the FRA a new Supercomputer(brain-supercomputer).

Those who know something about frequencies and micro-wave techniques already surely know what one has for possibilities to control. Through this, every computer is connected to the new “internet-elen”, so in principle all, absolutely all are in danger zone for attacks by internet.

BANK, POLICE, HOSPITALS anyone company, absolutely everyone needs electricity and there is neither firewall nor antivirus for internet-elen.

Whatever server our “INTERNETHOUSE” has, lies in darkness.

If one then uses the modified ELF ( Extreme Low Frequency – A Artificial Brain Frequency) it is easy to get 3D pictures of every room and listen to every conversation. Still more unpleasant is that one can easily send any frequency all through internet-elen, also those that influence people’s brain frequencies.

( One Remote Control for all People?)We are into the largest experiment concerning control of human brainwaves that the world has ever known,. Sweden and Finland have always been field experiment countries for micro-waves and therefore it is only these countries that got the system first.If all goes well other countries will follow later. Germany has already tv-prog about the project.same in other Countrys.We must absolutely reject the energy box and persuade neighbours to join in. (One can return the Box).We must very quickly give out information concerning this new system so that it becomes public and all the lies are revealed. ( Newspapers; Internet; TV, etc.) Help out if you can, for it is acute and the first experiment is already underway.If we do not stop it now, then the whole world will get this system.There is a direct connection between this box and the biggest HAARP SYSTEM in the World-” LOIS in Southsweden” , Chemtrails, FRA, Echelon and how Sweden was “rented” to NATO so that one can test these new exotic weapon systems in Norrland (North of Sweden) without control of the swedish. military. Micro-,Sound- and Scalar Weapons, Chemtrails Attacks,Nanoweapons, etc...........

.................etc"

What do you guys think?

Best issue everyone with tinfoil hats me thinks .

Freddie_Snowbits

I will not allow into my house any device that can be used to switch off something that is beyond my control, however it is tarted up as green!

If my fridge, using a thermostat wants to come on, it shall. or has 1984 and Big Brother taken over the world?

Begize

In reply to a few of the points in this thread, as far as I know (and I work for a utility company installing smart meters at present).....

The Electricity and Gas Acts state that meters have to be changed by law every 10 years and inspected for safety every 2. If you refuse access, your utility company must make all reasonable efforts to gain entry and that can include by force if required.

Whilst the energy saving side is a nice feature and a good selling point, the real reason for installing these is to give the utilities remote control, as they currently do for "complex" (industrial) metering applications. This may be simply to read the meter, to change to a different tarriff or provide statistics on usage for them to plan supply and load across the grid. One of the other big advantages is, because they have the ability to phone home, they will be able to report tampering and potential theft, something that costs us all a lot of money.

The devices we are installing DO monitor gas and whilst the in home display units are not accurate for billing, the meters they connect to are. I've been told that the IHD units will also support water meters at some point in the future. At present, whilst the meters do have external communication capabilities (using GSM / GPRS the same as your mobile phone), they are not being setup to use them. The comms between the meters and the IHD uses the same type of signals as your cordless landline phone or wireless internet. There is no connection to anything else in your house or the "internet", no hidden camera, microphones etc. Some of the more advanced IHD units allow you to connect up your PC and analyse data yourself either using a direct cable or an additional wireless module.

Obviously there are those who still say they jury is out on the danger to health from mobile phone signals and the like, but, these new meters will be no different to anything you already have in your house. Remember the hysteria there was around microwaves when the ovens first appeared....?

A lot is being made of this ability to turn devices on and off remotely but it's typical Daily Mail rubbish. Think about it - how can a meter turn off the power to a specific device in your home? There are IHD's which in conjunction with a special plug on the applicance can monitor that particular appliance and I suppose in future you could program it to turn on and off, but none of the equipment being installed now supports that. If it was to, you would have to agree to having these plugs put on your equipment.

As for hacking into things - as the post a few above states, there are various bits of legislation to cover this. Again, bearing in mind that most big companies are now using "smart" complex metering systems, and have done for years, if you could hack these kind of things, wouldn't someone be already doing it, trying to blackmail companies into saying they would cut their power remotely unless they paid them a ransom?

Putting these devices in might cost a bit, but by law, every meter in the UK would have to be replaced over the next ten years anyway. The utility companies already carry this cost and pass it on to consumers and any extra they spend on new equipment and systems is offset by the fact they won't need as many meter readers or call centre staff.

One thing I will agree on though, we are currently trialling two different systems. One is far superior to the other, has a better build quality, works straight out of the box when installed, is reliable and gives customers much more information. Unfortunately it costs more than the other. Guess which is probably going to get the go ahead when the proper installations start...?

Markee

Begize wrote: »

A lot is being made of this ability to turn devices on and off remotely but it's typical Daily Mail rubbish. Think about it - how can a meter turn off the power to a specific device in your home? There are IHD's which in conjunction with a special plug on the applicance can monitor that particular appliance and I suppose in future you could program it to turn on and off, but none of the equipment being installed now supports that. If it was to, you would have to agree to having these plugs put on your equipment.

I think someone (probably a Daily Mail reporter) is getting confused here. The meters will have the facility for a remote disconnect of your electricity or gas supply into your house (if you don't pay the bill) and not remote control of individual devices.

Haarlem

Begize wrote: »

In reply to a few of the points in this thread, as far as I know (and I work for a utility company installing smart meters at present).....

The Electricity and Gas Acts state that meters have to be changed by law every 10 years and inspected for safety every 2. If you refuse access, your utility company must make all reasonable efforts to gain entry and that can include by force if required.QUOTE]

The certification period of domestic Electricity meters is between 10 - 20 years. Most are 20 years. Ofgem monitors the accuracy of the various manufaturers and types and can vary this period. (I see a few are 35 years).

See

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Networks/Techn/Metrolgy/AssetMgmt/Guidance/Documents1/5876-meterapprovalverification.pdf

greenbee

Markee wrote: »

Everyone should know not to believe what they read in the Mail!

Fridges and Freezers already have a device which turns them off when not needed then turn them back on when the temperature rises - it's called a thermostat and one is fitted to every fridge and every freezer and, believe it or not, fridge freezers have one for each section! Wow! How do you think the most efficient ones have had an energy "A" rating for years?

Which is why I regularly come home to find my display telling me I'm not using any electricity :D

Begize

[QUOTE=Haarlem;27663965
The certification period of domestic Electricity meters is between 10 - 20 years. Most are 20 years. Ofgem monitors the accuracy of the various manufaturers and types and can vary this period. (I see a few are 35 years).

See

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Networks/Techn/Metrolgy/AssetMgmt/Guidance/Documents1/5876-meterapprovalverification.pdf [/QUOTE]

Yep, but AFAIK the act still says they have to be changed every 10 years. I think that they can leave the same meter in as long as it's been safety checked - I know our gas meter was due for change but when they came to do it, the ones the guy had on the van wouldn't fit so he "serviced" the one we had, installed a new battery for the display etc.

Begize

Markee wrote: »

I think someone (probably a Daily Mail reporter) is getting confused here. The meters will have the facility for a remote disconnect of your electricity or gas supply into your house (if you don't pay the bill) and not remote control of individual devices.

It's more than just the Daily Mail getting confused! I've seen this claim on a number of websites. Funny enough I mentioned this to our smart metering manager yesterday and he thought it should be possible to do if there was some kind of standard for communicating over the earth wire to an applicance.

I'd be interested to see if / how they implement the remote disconnection thing.

At the moment, if you don't pay then the utlities can force entry and install a pre-payment meter. With the smart ones I know they can change from credit to pre-payment remotely but the ones I've seen have no slot for a card or key. I guess they will switch to some kind of system where the meters will be sent credit remotely and you have to visit a website or a kiosk thing in a shop.