MSE News: 'Smart Meter' energy roll-out plans unveiled

hansi

That's right, but there'll probably be a shortage of sticks to rub together! Something to do with global warming?

oppressed

jblackmore wrote: »

Another pat on the back from our goverment to the profiteering energy companies !

It may seem ridiculous if you just follow the money, but there may be something potentially more sinister planned. Call me paranoid if you like but with constantly automated meter reading could it be possible to know when a house is occupied/used and once the direct line to an external source is established who knows what add ons can be utillised. The ring main could become an inductive loop transmitting voice and sonar positioning signals for analysis via micro processor?? Is this feasable??:eek::eek: I'm reminded of winston smith in 1984 being observed in his bedroom not doing to his exercises sufficiently well. Orwell has been quite predictive up to now. Just speculating

---

Discuss....

Oneday77

I personally see this as a good thing. Yes there are lots of people who know how to be savvy with the electric, can work a calculator and understand their bills. There are so many more people who don't. It is already known about here that prepayment meters rip of the less affluent users and that quarterly estimated bills are never accurate. Monthly direct debit ones are even worse.
We all are used to monthly land and mobile phone bills that are accurate with a few exceptions. Our bank statements show us how much we have to the day by online or mini bank statements. You know your grocery bill cost before you leave the shop or order online. Why on earth should we run with the antiquated utility bill system for Gas and Electric.
Is it just me or will the wheel never take off, nah it's the work of the devil. Remember the first Steam Train trials expected people to die travelling faster than 30miles an hour, the passengers survived.
Welcome to the 21st century. Companies will always learn to make profits but MSE will always be here to help us make the most of it.

C_Mababejive

The bottom line....we have a diversified energy industry. We used to have The mighty British Gas corporation for Gas and the CEGB for leccy.

Joe public bleated about it so the Governement fixed it for us and made capitalists a load of cash.

We also have the overpaid residents of quangoland at OFGEM ,one organisation which should be binned.

So becuase no one organisation has total control of gas and electric,,HM Gov sees future problems about balancing the umpteen producers with consumers. Enter smart meters. YOU pay to have devices fitted in your home which can feed back info on your useage and help the industry to balance its production/consumtion so maximising its profits.

Also such equipment needs maintenance so presumably they will break down and then you can get estimated/inaccurate bills and wait in all day for someone to come fix it...who will never turn up becuase they are under staffed and over worked due to pressures bearing down on them.

greenbee

The government seem to be positioning smart metering as both a green initiative and a cost management one.

The utilities have all realised that they've got to go with it, so are trying to work out the benefits for themselves. The discussions I'm aware of (as an ex-employee of a utility) included:

• the ability to change from pre-pay to credit without having to send someone round
• reduced costs for meter reading
• reduction in issues with crossed meters/incorrect readings
• fewer customers running up vast debt due to meter readers not being able to access the meter
• ability to update the tariff on pre-pay meters
• ability to pay bills via the meter using credit/debit cards

Existing 'smart' meters for businesses (the ones that provide the half hourly data for businesses who are billed on variable unit costs) can only send data one way. The idea with the domestic smart meters is that the data will go both ways - so your energy provider can use the meter display to tell you that your bill is ready, or that your boiler needs servicing etc - and if smart appliances are added to the mix, the meter can tell you which appliances are using the energy, let you know about faults etc. It might also be used as a sales tool.

All the utility companies are currently working on developing these meters, but there are problems around who will own the meters and what standards will be in place for compatibility. So if your meter was originally provided by say EON and you moved to EDF, the chances are that although the mandatory features (it sending meter readings to your supplier) would still be available, any added extras wouldn't work.

If variable pricing can be introduced for domestic customers through these meters, then there are all sorts of possiblities - could you tell your washing machine, for example, only to come on when the unit price went below a certain level? Or switch things off if the price went above a certain amount? some of these ideas appeal to the industry as they believe that a combination of smart appliances and smart meters will improve the load balancing on the grid.

Smart metering is a very complex issue, and involves government and utilities trying to work out what's in it for them... it'll be expensive, but hopefully it will bring benefits for customers too.

As for the occupancy data and the risks around it - this should be covered by data security standards. Remember that these companies already have your bank/credit card details etc, so you are already trusting them with sensitive information.

Twinkly

IlonaRN wrote: »

So it will cost us £340 to install, but only save us £28/year if we can cut down as much as they think we will (which won't be possible for everyone). That's more than 12 years for the cost of the meter to be "earnt" back in savings!

These meters may be about many things but they are certainly not primarily about saving the customer money and the meters will not "pay for themselves" in savings.

In this case it can not be classed as a saving if you are not spending it in the first place. Once you have cut back by £28 in one year how do you cut back by a further £28 the following year ? And the year after that ?

I think the most anyone will ever save is that first £28 in that first year and probably due more to the novelty factor than anything else. Any further savings year on year on top of that first £28 - to pay for the meter - will be difficult to achieve.

For example: If your bill is around £520 per year on electric alone @ £10 per week (which is a low example) then you would have to cut usage down by a total of 2/3 before that meter £340 is paid for. Really, how fast can anyone cut down - or even manage on and maintain - using approximately £3 worth of electric per week ?

That is always assuming the price of electric doesn't go up. It will be even harder to "save" any money then.

I am unable to find any official reference to the tariff these meters will be set to. Surely if we are all to have these meters imposed on us then all tariffs should be abolished and replaced with one flat rate. The only variation in price should be a small charge dependant on method of payment. Personally I think anyone who pre-pays should not be charged extra at all and deserve a discount.

It is frankly obscene that those who pay in advance on pre-pay are charged extra effectively subsidising those who are billed after the event - monthly, quarterly or otherwise - especially when they do not bother to pay.

C_Mababejive

What is wrong with the existing system? Practically nothing. Traditional meters are proven technology which just keep on working. What the industry needs to do is ensure that they are read at regular intervals and that people are billed accurately..nothing more..nothing less. We used to have it so why dont we have it now?..becuase it costs money and utilities want that money for themselves..they dont wish to spend it on servicing you,the customer.

There was a time when i meter was a fit & forget piece of kit. Now it seems like they are changing them every other year. Quantum prepayment gas meters are notoriously unreliable becuase they are made cheaply and are a result,are rubbish. But who cares? its you who sits and freezes waiting for service.

No..there is no need to get involved in this costly and un-necessary faffing around.

What we DO desperalty need is to move back to two solid integrated utilities in this country..one ofr gas and one for leccy. We need to get rid of this fragmented mess which we currently have which is just a cash making machine,a danger to the public and security of supply and does not serve the public well.

moonrakerz

Markee wrote: »

It's also not about them spending £340 on a smart meter for us to save £28 per year.

You're quite right, it's not about THEM spending £340 - it's about US spending £340 each !!!

KeepYourChinUp_2

Seems like it would be a great tool for extra taxes. Use over a certain amout pay a fine. (course you knew it says on your meter). I could easily see household electricity allowances being imposed because they dont want to up production, go over it get cut off (remotely).

Easy to see that the information on consumption would track household occupancy and go to a goverment database eventually thereby helping to track everyones movements.

I wonder how reliable and hack proof they will be. What happens if there is a system failure ? a mass blackout?

We will save £28 a year what a load of rubbish they will put the price up to offest the losses through reduced consumption thats a certainty

George Orwell was right, just a few years wrong thats all.

C_Mababejive

KeepYourChinUp wrote: »

Seems like it would be a great tool for extra taxes. Use over a certain amout pay a fine. (course you knew it says on your meter). I could easily see household electricity allowances being imposed because they dont want to up production, go over it get cut off (remotely).

Easy to see that the information on consumption would track household occupancy and go to a goverment database eventually thereby helping to track everyones movements.

I wonder how reliable and hack proof they will be. What happens if there is a system failure ? a mass blackout?

We will save £28 a year what a load of rubbish they will put the price up to offest the losses through reduced consumption thats a certainty

George Orwell was right, just a few years wrong thats all.

Yes...an emissions tax. Just like bin taxes and remote measuring weight of rubbish thrown out.