How to help a delusional friend?

seven-day-weekend

Paisley wrote:

Haha, so true, I'm 23 with a new mortgage, stocks and shares and I HATE clubbing maybe I am a bit too old for my years!

You're obviously a very mature 23-year-old! Do you want to marry my son (26)??!!

(Actually, he's very good at not getting into debt, just not so good at managing the money he has!) He hates clubbing too!

southernscouser

seven-day-weekend wrote:

You're obviously a very mature 23-year-old! Do you want to marry my son (26)??!!

(Actually, he's very good at not getting into debt, just not so good at managing the money he has!) He hates clubbing too!

I'll marry him! :rotfl:

dinkylou

Walk away from them.

I know its harsh but being around them isnt good. They resent you and you are only upsetting yourself.

Its sad but it sounds like the friendship needs to come to an end.

bikerqueen

T0o be fair, it really is nowt to do with you. I don't mean that in a horrible way, but you feel equipped to have a go at their choices "Whenever I mention things he can't afford", but get upset when they have a go at yours "TV, Brie etc." You cant expect to sit in judgement, however well intentioned, and not get it back.

They will not change until they are ready. If you cannot sit back, nod sagely and ignore their more mental schemes, then you need to cut them out. Sorry to be blunt, but this is, of course, all IMHO.

lady_fuschia

I have to ask: Do you actually like these people? Enjoy spending time with them? What do you get out of the friendship? FOr that matter, what do they get? I can't help wondering if maybe you feel a little smug about your own excellent management of your financial affairs (as you should- hats off to you for getting sorted so young), but not everyone is so organised- not everyone's aim is to get a mortgage before they hit thirty, and just because they choose to manage their money and lives differently to you doesn't really give you the right to judge them as "delusional". Maybe they are making mistakes- I agree- but perhaps they think you are making mistakes in not getting out and enjoying life and taking more oppurtunities whilst you're still young- I know many people who would find the idea of being tied to a mortgage at 23 an unthinkable restriction on their freedom. Neither view is wrong, let them make their own way in the world and their own mistakes. Maybe you should question if you have so little in common is it really worthwhile you being friends, or do you just enjoy the feeling of superiority you get from your comparitive security? I'm not really criticising, but maybe you need to think about this- after all, responsibility and financial security aren't particularly valuable attributes in themselves- its what you do with them. Don't forget that life is there to be lived too, and making mistakes and bad judgements is an important part of that.

Paisley_3

You make a great point and really put it well.

I feel for these people what I guess most people feel for their brother or sister - close, but they annoy you, you at times feel like you hate them, but you don't, and you care for them and don't want them to be in trouble emotionally or financially.

Everything I have is well reasoned (I don't do spending sprees!)I've worked very, very hard for what I have and yes I do slightly resent their freeloading way of life (many a time I've fed and watered them not even to get a thankyou). They feel life owes them something, whereas my view is you make success not win it.

I have a mortgage yes, but on a city centre apartment. I enjoy the freedom of being able to do what I like, I'm no 'square'! I wish they could join in but they can't and I've stopped lending and giving.

I agree we should make our own mistakes I really do. But this is less of a mistake more of a catastrophe. This guy phones me up every time he is about to spend money (literally 'we in town, just about to buy dinner') when he needs to be saving it.

I'm all for reaching for your dreams and being happy but they can't sleep at night due to the stress of the debt. I know this. But when I try and talk to them about it they stick their head in the sand. They're not happy at all, and I do see their ideas as delusional because they're lying and talking utter rubbish which 'proper' businesspeople don't do (they're not even properly registered as businesses, they're meeting in greasy spoons to exchange contracts and cash, and often 'work from bed' on their laptop!)

I pretty much want them just to realise that they need to sort their lives out. I don't really agree with being criticised over my own affairs - regardless of how much I can see your point. I agree it's none of my business but I really really cannot help but worry. At the end of the day if I was heading for a fall I'd like someone to catch me before I did, if they could see it coming. I can see how hard it is for families and friends of debtors who just can't or won't admit.

lady_fuschia

It seems to me that if this is what they want to do with their lives, you really do have to just let them get on with it. You can give them advice, tell them what you know- but to be honest I think its likely that the more you tell them its not going to work and they're being unrealistic, the more they will throw themselves into the ill-advised schemes in order to try and prove you wrong. Think about it- its hardly likely that they will go back on these plans simply because someone tells them that they think its a bad idea. Point them in the direction of reputable sources of advice about finance and business matters by all means, but don't try and take responsibility for their decisions- it may just be the case that they will have to learn the hard way. You're wearing yourself unecessarily by "interfering" (I don't mean that offensively, I can't think of a better word!) in their plans, as you are unlikely to really affect them. The best thing you can do is the same as you can do when a brother or sister enters a dodgy romantic relationship, tell them what you think, then be quiet whilst it runs its course, and be the shoulder to cry on when it falls apart. I don't see what else you can do- at the end of the day you need to concentrate on living your own life, not wasting energy on trying to sort out someone else's. I think maybe you should avoid talking about business and money matters with them.

Conrad

Paisley wrote:

Is all hope lost for these delusional people? Should I really block them off messenger and ignore them in the street, or simply watch them mess their lives up and potentially face legal action? How can anyone be so blinkered?
QUOTE]

Freindship is freindship. If it's a true freindship it will persist despite thier life choices.

Lots of people mess - up thier lives and learn from it. Its not as dramatic as people think. My youngest Brother got into massive unsecured debt. Later he went Bankcrupt under the new rules - really easy, no stress, nothing to it.
Before anyone says the usual "he'll never get another mortgage etc", he will just like his ex - Bankcrupt freind did recently with a reasonable rate. Life goes on.

They do sound dellusional however I will say this; Most business people are slightly irrational. Fully rational people often talk themselves out of new ventures and remain wageslaves thier whole lives.

Most sucesfull business people Ive met are in the end simply 'doers' rather than thinkers. This often means thier early adventures fail - but so what!

Conrad

Paisley wrote:

(they're not even properly registered as businesses, they're meeting in greasy spoons to exchange contracts and cash, and often 'work from bed' on their laptop!).

Sounds like so many when they start out. Apple computers started from parents garage. R Branson sold mail order music from a call box and student dorm!

A 'propertly registered business' is irrelevant. Most people simply start as sole traders in thier own name - nothing to register.

I even know people who are very wealthy yet never paid a penny in Tax, it hasnt stopped them building sucesful business's (I dont condone thier Tax evasion BTW).

When I first went into business I borrowed £15000 and had nothing behind me. Within a couple of years my life had totally transformed for the better, so dont dismiss getting into debt as a route to start - up capital.
Bodyshop was founded with a £20000 'car' loan and in the 1970s that was a lot of risk - money!

lady_fuschia

This is all true. You just have to let them live their twenties their way. If they mess up so be it, its better that they learn the lesson now than when they've got kids to feed, or are approaching retirement. At least they'll have time to recover.
As a by the by, your two friends' situation isn't too far off the one my OH and his ex-wife were in in their early twenties- they got carried away, made a few mistakes, lost some money and ended up in a fair bit of !!!!!!, but he (and she, too for that matter) recovered, and now in his early 30's is starting to pay off debts and build savings (with my help obv!)and has more realistic plans about starting up a business in a few years time. He learnt some hard lessons from the early venture, and still has a hard time overcoming the natural "spending urge", but faithfully tells him no-one could have prevented the problems he got into because he just plain wasn't listening. They may get themselves into a bit of poo, but they will recover, and probably wiser for it- most of us have hare-brained schemes when we're young- you just happen to be the very honourable exception! Well done!