Planning Permission - makes no sense?

pusscat

Well this is my first ever thread - please be kind to me! :rotfl::rotfl:

My partner and I own two townhouses that are next door to each other. We want more space but can't move (family reasons) so had the great idea of taking out the wall between the two kitchen/diners to make one large kitchen diner. We would leave everything else the same, both internally and externally. The houses would keep 2 sets of utilities, 2 council tax bills, 2 lots of bathrooms etc. After 5 years or so (depends on what happens) we would plan to fill the hole in again (once all the family have flown the nest) and rent out the other house or sell it on.

Every department I speak to at County Hall has a different take on this.

Planning

Planning tell me that making an internal opening is not a planning matter – it needs Building Control. That makes sense.
BUT they then tell me that closing an opening up again also only needs Building Control sign off.

However – somehow (and this is where I am confused) Planning need to visit to ensure that the properties have been used legitimately as two separate properties. They will only know about this if I ring them and ask them to come – (but I should ring them?) and if they think the properties have been used as one (they can’t tell me the criteria for this!) then they will make me apply for planning permission to put them back to 2 properties again.

Am I being daft here or are they just not explaining themselves very well?

From a council tax and HMRC CGT perspective we want to keep the properties as two separate ones – they are all fine. I appreciate that some people find this an odd thing to do – but there are reasons that make sense – just don’t want to post all of my details on here!

Any help gratefully accepted

Thanks

Puss

ormus

dont ell em anything they dont need to know.
just get on with it.

pusscat

ormus wrote: »

dont ell em anything they dont need to know.
just get on with it.

Thanks - is that really an option?

I have never had to deal with planning or building control before so really have no idea if I have to play it to the letter or if there is some leeway.

Whats the worst that can happen if they find out?

Puss

wallbash

Love this forum , you get the most interesting of questions.

ormus has given one view , not going to argue against it.

Whats the worst that can happen if they find out?

Thats a good question , You haven't broken any laws
You are not trying to evade any Tax , you plan to return properties to Orig
in a few years .

So do as Ormus suggested

quote dont ell em anything they dont need to know.
just get on with it.

Asking permission is not always the best policy.

If anyone knows anything different would love to know.

SOSAGES

gets my vote - do what ya like and then block it up later

punknzippy

the worst that can happen is they make you brick the opening back up , i carnt see why they would though .
planning is their to stop people who think they can do what they want as in build a big extension that blocks out your neighbours sunlight etc , your work is internal and will affect ... nobody so as above and get the hammers out

andrew-b

Issue might be if one of the properties suffers a fire and spreads to the other via the opening then you may find neither insurance policy at either property pays out (meaning you both lose everything rather than just one!) ..so fit a fire door between the two properties. Other issue is that party walls are highly likely to be supporting walls so suitable support would need to be inserted - in building terms that may make it quite a costly exercise compared to a gate in the back fence.
At the end of the day the houses are you and your partners...not the council planners or building control department .

wallbash

andrew-b raised some good points

Planning tell me that making an internal opening is not a planning matter – it needs Building Control.

So , i would have thought Fire regs would come into it.

Gate in back fence would certainly be a lot cheaper
But there is a five year plan , spread the convenience over that amount of time ????

ormus

i do assume that peeps actually do follow "best practice" in building methods/techniques!

failing to inform the pen pusher wasters, is no excuse not to use a lintel when and where required!

edgex

hasnt this been asked before?

either put a gate in the fence, or take out one of the fence panels
costs next to nothing, & is completely reversible in less than a day.


as andrew-b has pointed out, its likely that it will be a supporting/structural wall
id be inclined to say it is, its whats holding up the floors & roof!

you would also need a good fire door, so you wont be having an open plan kitchen/diner, as all you would have is an opening the width of one door between the 2, which would then have a fire door in it.

fire doors can get expensive, they are not standard doors, & what you would have to fit depends on the fire resistance required, & whether smoke seals etc need to be fitted.
a completely plain, no glazing or other finishes, 30min fire door & frame, with self-closing hinges, 30min intumescent seals & a latch handle is about £230 inc vat


after paying to have all that work done, you would then be paying to have it all reversed
& if i was looking at a property that had had all that work done to it, i would be wondering what else had been done. would probably put me off completely.

pusscat

edgex wrote: »

hasnt this been asked before?

There was another thread where someone wanted to do something similar - I posted on it a few months ago.

either put a gate in the fence, or take out one of the fence panels
costs next to nothing, & is completely reversible in less than a day.

This is the simplest solution - agreed. The problem is that getting from one house to the other then involves going outside which is not ideal.


as andrew-b has pointed out, its likely that it will be a supporting/structural wall
id be inclined to say it is, its whats holding up the floors & roof!

Agreed - it would not be done as a bodge job - I live here and don't want to wake up 2 storeys lower :rotfl:
you would also need a good fire door, so you wont be having an open plan kitchen/diner, as all you would have is an opening the width of one door between the 2, which would then have a fire door in it.

That is interesting - thanks. Both kitchens have fire doors onto the stairwells - would this be enough?

fire doors can get expensive, they are not standard doors, & what you would have to fit depends on the fire resistance required, & whether smoke seals etc need to be fitted.
a completely plain, no glazing or other finishes, 30min fire door & frame, with self-closing hinges, 30min intumescent seals & a latch handle is about £230 inc vat


after paying to have all that work done, you would then be paying to have it all reversed
& if i was looking at a property that had had all that work done to it, i would be wondering what else had been done. would probably put me off completely.

Hmmm - thanks - interesting to hear