Better to go with CSA in these circumstances

maggied_2

Hello again

I'm just needing to know whether it can be easier to go with the CSA than carry on with a personal arrangement.

OH pays his X directly each month (into her bank account labelled CM now thank God!).

They had an arrangement whereby he paid this plus out of school clubs and she would pay school dinner money. This arrangement has only been in existence since about Feb this year as they were going halves on clubs but he never got the money from her for them - so he would pay clubs, she would pay dinners.

Due to recent events (see my previous posts) she is refusing to pay school dinners and denying all knowledge of this agreement. She also took her DD OUT of the one of the clubs as it "ate into her weekend too much" so OH uses that money to take DD swimming / bowling etc instead.

(by the way I do know that it isn't up to him how CM is spent but the clubs are extra to CM...if that makes sense).

Anyway OH has been paying the school dinners (after getting arrears letters hand delivered to our house:eek:) and deducting from X's CM (he's let her know in advance about this).

She's kicked off and is (yet again) threatening to withdraw access.

OH has spoken to the solicitor this morning and is going in this afternoon to sort out a letter to apply for PR and a CO.

Anyway he has said to X (via her mother....long story) that if she let the school dinners go into arrears he will just do everything through the CSA. We got another arrears letter this weekend so looks like he'll be going down that route. Thing is the silly moo is getting more on this personal arrangement plus extras - she doesn't have to provide clothes for when DD is here or anything like that and OH also pays half towards school uniform / school trips etc.

He needs to call up and ask if there is case open from when they first split up (around 2002 / 2003 so could be CSA1 or 2) but then what?

I think it probably would be better not to involve them but things have become pretty bad so I think a personal agreement is now going to be difficult to achieve.

What do you all think?

shell_542

Will going through the CSA stop her messing around with the school dinners though?

She can carry on as she is, receiving the CSA money and not paying the school dinners, directing the arrears letters to you.

I don't think involving the CSA is going to help stop her messing around with any extras. She'll just carry on getting the arrears letters sent to you and keep pushing for extras ... especially if going through the CSA means less money for her.

She can also keep threatening to stop access, whether going through the CSA or not. It's a sad fact that she would use the children like that ... but there's not much that can be done to stop her from doing it if she wants. Poor children.

maggied_2

Maybe not....but she couldn't ask for any extra if it had been done 'by the book'.

The arrears letters can be directed to her. OH ended up going to the school (it's a small village school right behind our hosue that OH went to so they know all the families quite well) and roughly explained the situation. School confirmed that X had been in and asked for all school dinner correspondence to go to her from now on (earlier this year when they changed the arrangement).

The reason the arrears letters are coming to us is that OH said if the money wasn't paid on time to contact us and he would pay it and deduct it from her CM (which I think is reasonable). He's embarrased for DD that the school know her dinner money isn't being paid.

I know that she can always threaten to stop access....even with a CO. OH's other option is to pay her tons of money (she keeps banging on about how we have 2 incomes and she only has one AND doesn't get any LHA or CT benefit...errr neither do we) and anything else she wants. She'd still find something to screw him over with.

This weekend she refused to hand over DD's school uniform. Luckily we bought some the other week in case she pulled something like this, but she would have been happy for her own DD to go to school in mufti just because she thinks it would wind OH up.

She clearly cannot be reasonable so no idea how to 'fight' her if not through the official channels.

And yes - poor children. Why bother having them if you are prepared for them to go without in order to get back at an ex?

shell_542

I totally see where you're coming from, I just think if she's so unreasonable and can stand sending her child to school with arrears then she's the type of person who doesn't really care. (My son was 30p in arrears with his school dinners a few weeks ago and I was so embarrassed lol)

I can just imagine you going through the CSA and her still demanding more, letting the children go without knowing full well you'll not let them and will cover it, leave the arrears knowing that you wont let them build up to high.

By all means, if you feel a bit safer, go through the CSA. Stay on top of everything though. Ensure you let them know of all changes in circumstances. My main worry would be with the CSA, ending up with a ridiculously high arrears demand out of nowhere when you're still having to pay extras to the ex because she's still taking advantage and you wont let the children go without.

Have you checked to see how much you would pay through the CSA on their calculator? Taking into account your circumstances, they would use the net weekly income of your husband including all tax credits you both receive and all working tax credits if your husband earns more than you, half if you earn the same and none if you earn more than him, so be sure to include tax credits in the calculator as well .. as well as any children living with you.

If it's less, then it may be more worthwhile going through them and you can still fund the extra things when needed (hoping she'll buck up her ideas and stop taking the mick, although possibly unlikely).

shell_542

maggied wrote: »

Maybe not....but she couldn't ask for any extra if it had been done 'by the book'.

Thats the key comment to me. She still could

Kimitatsu

You can go through the CSA and I think in this situation personally that is what I would do. That way the amount of maintenance is defined, if your OH chooses to pay for any extras then he can, but that should be made clear that it is a choice not a right.

Keep all of the correspondance and diaries of everything that goes on especially if you are going to court for a contact order. The courts take a dim view of children being used in this way and if you have proof that this is happening then they will step in.

If you dont already have an exisiting case with the CSA then either parent can open one, it does not have to be the PWC. Check on the calculator if under CS2 how much you would be paying and then point out to her just how much she will get if yougo down that route - the threat of the CSA can go both ways.

maggied_2

shell_542 wrote: »

Thats the key comment to me. She still could

Could she? How so? Not officially, surely. Sorry if I'm being dense.

I've looked on the CSA calculator - she would get about £40 a month less. We don't have any children so no tax credits. How she hasn't taken the time to figure this out I do not know.

shell_542

maggied wrote: »

Could she? How so? Not officially, surely. Sorry if I'm being dense.

I've looked on the CSA calculator - she would get about £40 a month less. We don't have any children so no tax credits. How she hasn't taken the time to figure this out I do not know.

Not officially ... but the same way as she is doing it now. By not paying things herself and leaving it, by default, to your husband to pay for the things she's promised to as he will not let his children go without.

Perhaps if he were to contact the CSA and go through them, the fact that she will get £40 less maintenance a month than the private agreement will make her appreciate the extras he pays a little more and make her less likely to mess around ... I just don't think you can take for granted that she will though.

maggied_2

Kimitatsu wrote: »

You can go through the CSA and I think in this situation personally that is what I would do. That way the amount of maintenance is defined, if your OH chooses to pay for any extras then he can, but that should be made clear that it is a choice not a right.
We fully understand this. As I said PWC is already getting over the CSA calc so she can't compain that OH is using some CM to go directly to DD.

Keep all of the correspondance and diaries of everything that goes on especially if you are going to court for a contact order. The courts take a dim view of children being used in this way and if you have proof that this is happening then they will step in.
Does this include text messages? Only because he has a couple saying "if you don't put the extra money (money that he'd used to pay school dinners) in my account by the end of the day you won't be seeing DD at Christmas or during the week". And sure enough when OH went to collect DD the other night X had already been and collected her.

If you dont already have an exisiting case with the CSA then either parent can open one, it does not have to be the PWC. Check on the calculator if under CS2 how much you would be paying and then point out to her just how much she will get if yougo down that route - the threat of the CSA can go both ways.

Going through the CSa is definitely a last resort. OH has put up with this for 6/7 years so think he has been fairly reasonable so far.

maggied_2

I can just imagine you going through the CSA and her still demanding more, letting the children go without knowing full well you'll not let them and will cover it, leave the arrears knowing that you wont let them build up to high.

That's a really good point actually - hadn't thought of that. At least at the moment he is able to deduct the money when she refuses to pay. Thank you, one to think about.

shell_542

maggied wrote: »

I can just imagine you going through the CSA and her still demanding more, letting the children go without knowing full well you'll not let them and will cover it, leave the arrears knowing that you wont let them build up to high.

That's a really good point actually - hadn't thought of that. At least at the moment he is able to deduct the money when she refuses to pay. Thank you, one to think about.

That's what I was thinking. Through the CSA, he'll have no say in negotiation. It will the amount they demand and then if he has to pay anymore, it will be on top. Whereas at the moment, you have scope for negotiation.

It does seem fair (to me anyway) that if he has to pay a bill that is solely for the child, that the PWC has agreed to pay but hasn't, he can then deduct some or all out of the child maintenance he pays her. That money he pays her is for the child ... the money would have gone to pay the dinners, so he paid it directly. If she doesn't want it taken out of her CM, then she should pay it as she agreed. Others may not agree. But with a private agreement you can make negotiations like that.