Rights of way, parking allocation & other problems...

holtro

My partner and I found our dream house at the beginning of January this year, made an offer immediately, and we're still trawling through problems – in fact I've posted here before with queries on the same purchase. The property is a barn conversion and there have been all sorts of issues with it, including lack of completion certificate, holiday letting contract etc. These issues – which were deal-breakers – have now been resolved, and we are moving onto the more typical nitty gritty of conveyancing matters. Our full structural survey has unearthed a couple of issues:

(1) There is an oil tank at the far end of the garden belonging to the property we would be buying (it's a long area that narrows to a paddock, about 3/4 acre in total), and it serves another barn in the court (there are 5 in total in the conversion). There is no reference to the tank in the title documents, nor any right of way to it but the seller has told us she has given rights to the neighbour in respect of the oil tank. Our solicitor is investigating this further but sees it as a significant problem – not just because of the worst-case scenario of having neighbours from hell spilling onto our land when they like, but also because of the potential problems with selling on the property at a future date.

(2) The agents' particulars refer to designated parking for 2 cars in the shared courtyard but there is no reference in the title papers to this right, nor any specific allocation.

Our solicitor has included questions on these points to the seller's solicitor, but she herself is very negative that, if suitable documentation was never drawn up, then these are potentially HUGE problems. Now after 5 months of dealing with what I thought were bigger problems - like getting a mortgage for a house without a completion certificate and no indemnity insurance (in the end we found a bank happy to lend the money as long we provide a letter from the council confirming that a completion certificate would be issued when we addressed the [relatively minor and easily rectified] outstanding points as part of the rest of the building work we intend to do) – I struggle to accept that we might lose the house because of the above 2 issues – which to me seem relatively minor. However, my partner and I are understandably deterred by our solicitor's pessimism and indeed the pessimism of a property developer friend (and they’re normally much less cautious in my experience!)

You may think I’m reluctant to give up at this late stage because of the £1250 legal and £640 survey fees incurred to date (and yes, that does hurt a bit, but I realise we could be saving a lot more), but it's more because I struggle to see the above concerns as insurmountable given the mountains of obstacles we have already overcome. In fact, I just pleaded with our po-faced solicitor again and she now says it is possible that the seller could re-form an agreement with the neighbour on the right of access issue – but it would be the seller who would have to do it, and it could take another month (big deal – I’ve waited 5 months already and the property is holiday let til the end of August anyway!)

Sorry for the length of this post. Any advice – warnings or reassurances – would be welcomed!

clutton_2

one issue that strikes me as potentially quite serious for the future is that of "remediation" - if the oil tank springs a leak and poisons the land and water table - who will pay for the environmental clean up costs (remediation)?

Remediation works (often found on closed petrol sites which are to be developed for housing) can be truly HUGE. You need a clause in the access arrangements getting the tank owner to take FULL responsibility for any such problems in the future.

good luck

BobProperty

Surely the oil tank is in a bund (A surround capable of containing the contents of the tank in the event of a leak or spill)? If not, 1, I doubt that it meets regulations and 2, I can't imagine any insurer will be happy.
You must get both this situation and the parking space resolved before you buy it, or at least get a significant reduction in the price for not having the guaranteed 2 designated spaces. How much would 2 parking spaces be worth? Could be a lot of money?
The other property should only have access to the tank for filling and maintenance. I'd also want to know what contribution they would be liable for if the tank needed replaceing.

david29dpo

i live in a similar set up, 4 barns, please believe me, get this sorted 100% or dont buy.

silvercar

If the oil tank is for the sole use of another barn and it is right at the end of the garden, why not sell this plot of land to that barn. Then they will own the land on which their own oil tank sits.

BobProperty

Silvercar -
"There is an oil tank at the far end of the garden belonging to the property we would be buying .... and it serves another barn in the court"

Does that mean it's shared with 1 other? or did you mean the garden belonging to the property you are buying? It's not clear. If you mean it is shared with you then goodness knows how they arrange the payment and who uses what unless there are two tanks.
The more I think about this, the worse it seems. Why can't the vendor supply a copy of the agreement for the other household to have access to the tank? I bet it was verbal, hence the reluctance. If it is verbal only, you have the other household "over a barrel" (sorry). They have no rights they could easily prove to give them access to "their" oil supply.

Debt_Free_Chick

holtro wrote:

(1) There is an oil tank at the far end of the garden belonging to the property we would be buying (it's a long area that narrows to a paddock, about 3/4 acre in total), and it serves another barn in the court (there are 5 in total in the conversion). There is no reference to the tank in the title documents, nor any right of way to it but the seller has told us she has given rights to the neighbour in respect of the oil tank. Our solicitor is investigating this further but sees it as a significant problem – not just because of the worst-case scenario of having neighbours from hell spilling onto our land when they like, but also because of the potential problems with selling on the property at a future date.

It's a simple matter to grant a right of way to the owner of the barn allowing them access for the purpose of filling and maintaining the tank. You may be happy to do this. But bear in mind, that future buyers may be put off. Very many people don't understand how a right of way like this works in practice - they imagine that the neighbour has the right to roam over your garden whenever they feel like it. They don't! They are simply allowed to fill the tank and, if necessary, carry out any maintenance or replace it. That's it. But ... as I say ... some future buyers will be put off by it - but I think you can deal with that by talking to them and explaining the situation.

I agree with you - your solicitor is making a big deal out of something that can easily be remedied, if you are prepared to grant the RoW.

(2) The agents' particulars refer to designated parking for 2 cars in the shared courtyard but there is no reference in the title papers to this right, nor any specific allocation.

Ideally, this would be in the title register if it is a right that was actually granted when the barn was converted. Otherwise, it's a case of finding the owner (easy - just get the title register. You can do this online for £2) and getting them to grant the covenant. The covenant puts a note on the title register stating that you have the right to park two cars in the courtyard.

With nothing in the title register you have no right to park there. Of course, in practice, this may mean nothing as long as no-one tries to prevent you parking there.But in the future, the owner of the courtyard could make trouble for you about the parking - especially if the ownership changes hands.

she now says it is possible that the seller could re-form an agreement with the neighbour on the right of access issue – but it would be the seller who would have to do it, and it could take another month

I don't understand why you, as the new owner, can't do it Ask her why not

Debt_Free_Chick

BobProperty wrote:

Surely the oil tank is in a bund (A surround capable of containing the contents of the tank in the event of a leak or spill)? If not, 1, I doubt that it meets regulations

It's a recent regulation that requires a bunded oil tank and it only applies to tanks installed after the date the regulations came into play. Existing tanks can stay as they are until they need to be replaced - and on replacement (only) they must meet the new regulations.

and 2, I can't imagine any insurer will be happy.

Why not? Sorry, not being rude, but I'm not sure what problems you are forseeing.

I'd also want to know what contribution they would be liable for if the tank needed replaceing.

Assuming it's not shared (it seems from the OP that it's the neighbour's tank, on the OP's land) then it's entirely the neighbour's responsibility.

Debt_Free_Chick

Just to explain .. I live in a rural area ... have an oil tank (on my property) which doesn't meet the new regulations and also have a right of way over my neighbour's land. They've just sold and we did a lot of work on the RoW to be sure about our rights and obligations.

In practice, where all the property owners concerned are fully knowledgeable about the issue, there is no problem. It's when you get some townie with a "gid orff my laahnd!" attitude that it all goes to pot. If that happens, then those kind of people don't give a t0$$ about your rights anyway. Perhaps this is why your solicitor is concerned

clutton_2

Even if there is no Right of Way the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 (I think) allows anyone the legal right to walk over anothers land in order to maintain their property - but, a ROW would give every one legal certainty.

BobProperty

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

It's a recent regulation that requires a bunded oil tank and it only applies to tanks installed after the date the regulations came into play. Existing tanks can stay as they are until they need to be replaced - and on replacement (only) they must meet the new regulations.

Didn't realise it's recent. Either all the ones I've seen are done to current regs or people have been cautious and put in a bund whether it was required or not.

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

Why not? Sorry, not being rude, but I'm not sure what problems you are forseeing.

I was assuming there was supposed to be a bund, therefore insurer will say not to required legislation, therefore no cover. I can't imagine any insurer covering anything that doesn't comply with regulations.