Can't work in daytime because of hair

poet123

DVardysShadow wrote: »

OP said BF was half cast, as you agree. But elfen is not analysing how people might think. She is speculating how the BF's employer might be speculating people might be thinking. The black vs half cast issue is a red herring here. Elfen is not commenting on BF's race, elfen is specualting that either the employer is getting it wrong or that the employer is speculating that people will get it wrong and she is speculating that the employer is specualting that people will have a suspicion about the BF.

Now there is no way that Elfen is speculating anything about the BF.

I could say that "perhaps the BF's employer thinks that customers believe that the earth is flat". From that statement you cannot deduce that I think the earth is flat, nor that the BF's employer thinks the earth is flat, nor even that the customers think it is flat. Similarly, from what elfen said you can deduce nothing about anyone's thoughts about black people.


I doubt it. Elfen's words are my witness

I have replied to your PM on this issue. As I said in PM I would not have gone beyond my intial enquiry had you not interjected.

As you see fit to continue with this I can only assume you have an agenda.

Elfen clearly brought the "black issue" into play. The OP did not refer to her BF being black, he is not black, by bringing this into the discussion Elfen displays her (maybe) unconscious negative perception of those who are black, and transfers that onto the employer.

Why mention that the hairdo may give the impression he is black? it is irrelevant, unless you have yourself a certain perception of black people and and an understanding of how others who share that perception would react, i.e "with suspicion".

For your own (stated) reasons you are being disingenous about this issue, that does not make you correct, nor Elfen blameless, albeit perhaps unintentionally.

DVardysShadow

poet123 wrote: »

I have replied to your PM on this issue. As I said in PM I would not have gone beyond my intial enquiry had you not interjected.

As you see fit to continue with this I can only assume you have an agenda.

Yes, to exonerate elfen from a mistaken reading of her post.

Elfen clearly brought the "black issue" into play. The OP did not refer to her BF being black, he is not black, by bringing this into the discussion Elfen displays her (maybe) unconscious negative perception of those who are black, and transfers that onto the employer.

He was described as half cast. You cannot infer that she has negative perception of either from her lack of discernment between 'balck' and 'half cast'

Why mention that the hairdo may give the impression he is black? it is irrelevant, unless you have yourself a certain perception of black people and and an understanding of how others who share that perception would react, i.e "with suspicion".

Already explained. Elfen is not describing her own thoughts, she is describing her speculation about what A may think B is thinking and you are objecting [rightly] to what B is described as thinking, but [wrongly] ascribing that thought to elfen. Unless you know something which is entirely outside of this thread.

For your own (stated) reasons you are being disingenous about this issue, that does not make you correct, nor Elfen blameless, albeit perhaps unintentionally

That is out of order. You need to justify the charge of disingenuity or withdraw. Elfen is blameless. Even if you could dig up a history for elfen on this issue, there is nothing, nothing on this thread which elfen can be criticised for.

poet123

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Yes, to exonerate elfen from a mistaken reading of her post.


He was described as half cast. You cannot infer that she has negative perception of either from her lack of discernment between 'balck' and 'half cast'


Already explained. Elfen is not describing her own thoughts, she is describing her speculation about what A may think B is thinking and you are objecting [rightly] to what B is described as thinking, but [wrongly] ascribing that thought to elfen. Unless you know something which is entirely outside of this thread.


That is out of order. You need to justify the charge of disingenuity or withdraw. Elfen is blameless. Even if you could dig up a history for elfen on this issue, there is nothing, nothing on this thread which elfen can be criticised for.

I really don't intend to debate this further, I posted as I saw it, and
still see it.

Another poster also saw the comment as "suspect". If, as you contend, your intention is to portray Elfen as blameless that is a laudable sentiment (as I said to you in response to your PM) but wishing does not make it so.

He was described as half caste, where does the description black, and from there, any negative (or otherwise) connotation require to be drawn?

Why mention black? why not discuss the racial description in question? It was not necessary or relevant, unless there was an underlying predjudice the poster wished to convey, or a predjudice which was conveyed unconsciously.

Maybe you are not being disingenuous, maybe you really cannot see what construction could be put upon her words. Only you know why you are defending her, only you know why you are so insistent, only you know why you feel the need to communicate by PM, only you know why you decided to pick up on the query directed at Elfen.

I made a simple query, you escalated it, she has not responded. How can you answer for her.....why would you want to?

To categorically state Elfen is blameless is overstepping the realms of your knowledge. You cannot know that, anymore than I can know she is racist. My comments were speculative, asking a question, giving her the opportunity to explain, even exonerate herself, yours are definitive, you cannot be sure they are correct.

You are doing her no favours.

DVardysShadow

poet123 wrote: »

I really don't intend to debate this further, I posted as I saw it, and
still see it.

Another poster also saw the comment as "suspect". If, as you contend, your intention is to portray Elfen as blameless that is a laudable sentiment (as I said to you in response to your PM) but wishing does not make it so.

He was described as half caste, where does the description black, and from there, any negative (or otherwise) connotation require to be drawn?

Why mention black? why not discuss the racial description in question? It was not necessary or relevant, unless there was an underlying predjudice the poster wished to convey, or a predjudice which was conveyed unconsciously.

Maybe you are not being disingenuous, maybe you really cannot see what construction could be put upon her words. Only you know why you are defending her, only you know why you are so insistent, only you know why you feel the need to communicate by PM, only you know why you decided to pick up on the query directed at Elfen..

Dealt with previously

I made a simple query, you escalated it, she has not responded. How can you answer for her.....why would you want to?

I don't like people being critcised for things thaey manifestly did not say.

To categorically state Elfen is blameless is overstepping the realms of your knowledge.

If you quoted me in context, you would know that this is in the context of this thread. And it is what she said in this thread you are chafing about.

You cannot know that, anymore than I can know she is racist. My comments were speculative, asking a question, giving her the opportunity to explain, even exonerate herself, yours are definitive, you cannot be sure they are correct.

My reading of what she said is correct

You are doing her no favours

You mean I am not letting you get away with having a go at her. I think you are too taken up with things you have mentioned in your PM to actually read what the poor girl wrote at face value.

onlyforboards_2

poet123 wrote: »

My comments were speculative

As were Elfen's! There is nothing in the post that can been seen to support the view that Elfen is racist!
If the OP's boyfriend has a union and raised this issue with them one of the things they would consider is that this matter could be the result of racism. They would be speculating in exactly the same manner ad Elfen. Would you view the union the same way as you do Elfen?
For all we know Elfen could be racist but there is nothing in the post to suggest so.
Have a think about it poet, you are getting confused by the semantics.

poet123

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Dealt with previously

But fudged:rolleyes:


I don't like people being critcised for things thaey manifestly did not say.

In your opinion, mine differs.
If you quoted me in context, you would know that this is in the context of this thread. And it is what she said in this thread you are chafing about.

Mine is in the context of this thread too


My reading of what she said is correct

Again, in your opinion,that does not make it correct.


You mean I am not letting you get away with having a go at her. I think you are too taken up with things you have mentioned in your PM to actually read what the poor girl wrote at face value.

You PM'd me and I have answered your request to put the PM content on the thread, you have my full permission to do so. Then we can see what you mean because I have no clue what you refer to

Unless, you refer to my comment that I don't use PM, except for chit chat, and that I say whatever it is I have to say on the thread and not in PM as I find it more honest and transparent? could that be it.? if so I stand by that comment.

DVardysShadow

poet123 wrote: »

You PM'd me and I have answered your request to put the PM content on the thread, you have my full permission to do so. Then we can see what you mean because I have no clue what you refer to

What I actually wrote in the PM "If you want to be transparent and honest, put this whole PM on the thread - my quote of you and this reply. What you have written is disingenuous for sure." As you cannot parse elfen's words, I am not surprised that you misrepresent me as requesting permission to put up the PM content. I was challenging you to do it

Unless, you refer to my comment that I don't use PM, except for chit chat, and that I say whatever it is I have to say on the thread and not in PM as I find it more honest and transparent? could that be it.? if so I stand by that comment.

Enough. You cannot deal with 2 levels of indirection in elfen's post and I accept your limitations.

savvy

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............................... none of this is helping the poor OP

poet123

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Enough. You cannot deal with 2 levels of indirection in elfen's post and I accept your limitations.

I cannot deal with people who are disingenous without calling it as I see it. If that offends, so be it. Your argument is unproven.

When you requested I put up the PM's I explained that it was not etiquette to post PM's, however, I went on to say I had no objection to you doing so if you felt the need. You have not done so, but in breach of the etiquette I will post the following last response from you.

"Go away" :rolleyes:

Seems my level of debate is slightly higher than yours!!

savvy

savvy wrote: »

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............................... none of this is helping the poor OP

Ahem :rolleyes:

Look, viewing this page of the thread, it really does look as if it's come down to just you 2 going round and round and round and round and round...................and I personally can't see it going in any other shape tbh, so for the OP's sake can you either just let it be, or just stick to pm's??

I don't know about anyone else, but I feel really bad for the OP, she posts a problem, gets called a troll, has to prove herself, her thread turns into a massive discussion about what is pc or not and then you two have a very public 'debate' about he said, she said, I said, you said...............and has no practical help in it for her :o:o :o:o