Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

Psyon

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

Your calculations are flawed for 2 reasons.
1) You are assuming that all daylight is strong sunlight (e.g. your worst case scenario of 7 hours a day)
2) you are assuming that the numbers of hours of sunlight per day is linear

A better way of looking at the calculations would be the following:

A PV system will generate a number of units directly proportional to how far North or South you are in the county. Southern counties will have a higher percentage, Scottish will be lower. I live near Chester, and over the last two years, I have got roughly 850 watts per Kwp installed

So, my system is 1.44 kwp, and 1.44*850 equals about 1200 units per year.

1200 * 41.3p, would be £495, plus your export bonus of maybe £20 (1200 * half exported* 3p)

So if you are further south than Chester, maybe do 900 units per kwp, and if you are further North, maybe do 800 units per kwp

Hope this helps

PS you have a final flaw, the government doesn't give you a penny. They tell the energy companies that they must do this, so the money comes from them, not government.

Hi,

Thanks for your answer.
for Your points for 1 and 2, 7 hours is "worse case" DECember 22nd (shortest day of yr). On longest day of the year there are 16 hours of "daylight".. I was just choosing the shortest day and making it "linear" to make the calculations easier.

I think your point about my assumption "all daylight is strong daylight" has pointed me in the right direction.. Ofcourse, we live in the UK, how silly of me..

Thanks.

Btw, what is kwp? and the diff between KwH?

so a 3kw system can only generate (estimate) around 1.6kws per year? OH!!! the 3kw system means 3kw/year.. not 3kwh...!!!

Mcfi5dhc

Psyon wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for your answer.
for Your points for 1 and 2, 7 hours is "worse case" DECember 22nd (shortest day of yr). On longest day of the year there are 16 hours of "daylight".. I was just choosing the shortest day and making it "linear" to make the calculations easier.

I think your point about my assumption "all daylight is strong daylight" has pointed me in the right direction.. Ofcourse, we live in the UK, how silly of me..

Thanks.

Btw, what is kwp? and the diff between KwH?

Hi

kwp is kilo watt peak - this is how solar systems are rated. a 3 kwp system is 3 kilo watt peak which means in ideal conditions, or test conditions it will generate 3 kwh (kilo watt hours) of electricity per hour.

A kwh is one unit of electric - so when you get your bill, and they charge you for 500 units, you have used 500 kwh.

Psyon wrote: »

so a 3kw system can only generate (estimate) around 1.6kws per year? OH!!! the 3kw system means 3kw/year.. not 3kwh...!!!

No - 3 kw system (it should be called 3kwp by the way) would generate roughly 2550 kwh's of electric where I live, slightly more down south, and slightly less up t'north.

Psyon

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

No - 3 kw system (it should be called 3kwp by the way) would generate roughly 2550 kwh's of electric where I live, slightly more down south, and slightly less up t'north.

you said you get "I have got roughly 850 watts per Kwp installed". for your 1.44kwp system.

so 850 / 1.44 = 586.21 what you would get for 1kwp system
586.21 * 3 = 1758.62kwh. where does 2550kwh come from?

not having a go just want to make sure I understand how this thing works.. I'm thinking is it worth a go getting free?
or is it "worth a go". stumping up from and trying to make a "profit" in the long run..

Mcfi5dhc

Psyon wrote: »

you said you get "I have got roughly 850 watts per Kwp installed". for your 1.44kwp system.

so 850 / 1.44 = 586.21 what you would get for 1kwp system
586.21 * 3 = 1758.62kwh. where does 2550kwh come from?

not having a go just want to make sure I understand how this thing works.. I'm thinking is it worth a go getting free?
or is it "worth a go". stumping up from and trying to make a "profit" in the long run..

you should have multiplied not divided

(850 units would be for a 1kwp system)

so 850 x 1.44 = 1224 units

so 850 x 3 = 2550

Thanks

beedydad

Hi all

I would say that it these seem to be a good offer...However...

The balance of financial gains are with the company NOT the house owner.

Without available roof space these companies cannot make any money. So why are people willing to "rent out" very cheaply their precious roof space with little return for themselves.

Reading the other threads as well as this it would seem that on average a householder taking up this scheme may well get a return of around £150pa - £200pa from the generated electricity for their personal use.

whereas the companies may well get £800pa - £1,000pa.

Taking a simple example of the upper figures over the 25 year period

Householder gets £200 x 25 = £5,000
Company gets £1,000 x 25 = £25,000

Of course the company has to purchase and install the equipment say £10,000 - but i know they get this for less - but I am using retail prices.

Profit of, at least £15,000.

Why not charge the company rent as well?

I would suggest say £100 per annum over the 25 year period giving the householder an extra £2,500 profit.

Reducing the companies profit over period by same amount - but still a fantastic deal to them - and a much better deal to the householder!!

Regards

Jon_Tiffany

beedydad wrote: »

Hi all

I would say that it these seem to be a good offer...However...

The balance of financial gains are with the company NOT the house owner.

Without available roof space these companies cannot make any money. So why are people willing to "rent out" very cheaply their precious roof space with little return for themselves.

Reading the other threads as well as this it would seem that on average a householder taking up this scheme may well get a return of around £150pa - £200pa from the generated electricity for their personal use.

whereas the companies may well get £800pa - £1,000pa.

Taking a simple example of the upper figures over the 25 year period

Householder gets £200 x 25 = £5,000
Company gets £1,000 x 25 = £25,000

Of course the company has to purchase and install the equipment say £10,000 - but i know they get this for less - but I am using retail prices.

Profit of, at least £15,000.

Why not charge the company rent as well?

I would suggest say £100 per annum over the 25 year period giving the householder an extra £2,500 profit.

Reducing the companies profit over period by same amount - but still a fantastic deal to them - and a much better deal to the householder!!

Regards

They will have to wait 25years to see that £15,000 profit, so its not as good as you make it sound. "precious roof space"? - most people dont do anything with their roof space, why is it so precious?

If its such a great deal for ASG then there's nothing to stop you going to the bank, borrowing the money and making that £15,000 profit for yourself.

noncom_2

Of course it's a good deal for them, they wouldn't be in business doing it otherwise.

This is a VERY long term investment for them, with various risk factors including maintenance of the systems, changes to the FIT system in the next 25 years, costs of borrowing the capital they are investing in panels on your roof etc.

Also, as a company, presumably they have to pay tax on their profits (which you as a householder wouldn't if you did it yourself).

So, although it must make sound business sense for them (and others) to have got going with these schemes, they are hardly ripping people off in the way you seem to imply.

albyota

We must not forget the reason that this is happening, ASG and similar householders like yakky and mcfi5dhc are reducing CO2 emmissions and cleaning up the dirty national grid network which will lesson the burden on the generating companies, a lot of solar PV is required to meet targets, especially as more and more air source heat pumps get fitted.

Jon_Tiffany

albyota wrote: »

We must not forget the reason that this is happening, ASG and similar householders like yakky and mcfi5dhc are reducing CO2 emmissions and cleaning up the dirty national grid network which will lesson the burden on the generating companies, a lot of solar PV is required to meet targets, especially as more and more air source heat pumps get fitted.

Well said. Lets not also forget that the UK is increasingly dependant on imported energy, in my opinion renewables are good for the UK economy as well.

beedydad

To Jon tiffany "They will have to wait 25years to see that £15,000 profit, so its not as good as you make it sound. "precious roof space"? - most people dont do anything with their roof space, why is it so precious?

If its such a great deal for ASG then there's nothing to stop you going to the bank, borrowing the money and making that £15,000 profit for yourself. "

NO - they do not wait 25 years - they make money on a consistant yearly basis.

I would expect their breakeven point is around 7 - 8 years.

Its a pure financial commerical business plan dressed up into the "green" arena to create a smokescreen and !!!!! your environmental consciences!!!

Regards